Children and Religion

NickSCFC wrote:

MCN wrote:

Jonathan86 wrote:I believe it's a good thing to introduce religion into a kids life. Not really for the 'worship your maker' thing, but for the moral values it teaches.

It is perfectly possible to teach morality without religion. If I have kids, I will allow them to believe what they want, and to make their own decisions about religion based on evidence.

Morality is natural, I believe it's the key to our survival as a species and half the reason we've come so far? Does it need to be taught?

I do think it needs to be taught, and it is the teaching of morality throughout the generations that has enabled it to be so pervasive, and in turn has helped us get this far. For example, a toddler with a toy generally will not share that toy with another toddler until they have been taught to share.

Phatman wrote:

Red Devil wrote:On basic terms, scientific theory is quite similar to the theory about god:

We think it happened but we can't be positively sure.

Well no. We have evidence to support scientific theory such as evolution. We have no evidence to support the existence of God. Not that I'm saying God doesn't exist, I'm just saying that we have no evidence.

Isn't the Bible evidence of god? Jesus doing all the gooseberry fool he did?

Falsey wrote:

Memento Mori wrote:

Falsey wrote:

Memento Mori wrote:

MCN wrote:The way I see it,if I were to force my children down the atheism route, then I would be as bad as those who force their children into religion. For me, it is all about the freedom of choice.

I disagree. If my kid asks me do unicorns exist I'm going to say no, same with god. You're not forcing kids to be atheist, just stating the facts.

But its not a fact, There is nothing, anywhere, that proves this.

Is there any proof unicorns exist? As there isn't I think it's safe to assume they don't.

So you can say to the child 'I dont think Unicorns exist' and 'I dont think god exists'

If there's no evidence, there's no reason to entertain the idea.

There's as much evidence for both as there is an 8th day of the week, a 25th hour in the day and a 13th month in the year. Let's stop beating around the bush.

This kind of wishy-washy nonsense is thanks to the promotion of a bastardisation of 'respect'. As if all ideas are equally worthy.

Kid: "Was Newton a grasshopper that dressed like a Soho Dandy?"

Dad: "I don't think so"

Kid: "Did Einstein go to special school?"

Dad: "I don't think so"

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:

Falsey wrote:So you can say to the child 'I dont think Unicorns exist' and 'I dont think god exists'

Are you playing Devil's* advocate here?

If your child asks you whether unicorns exist you'll tell them that you don't think they do?



*sorry if I offended you by using the word Devil.

Honestly, Id say 'I dont know', Because guess what, I dont.

I think its important I say here that Im not a fanatic, or creationist, or godsquad.

Red Devil wrote:

Phatman wrote:

Red Devil wrote:On basic terms, scientific theory is quite similar to the theory about god:

We think it happened but we can't be positively sure.

Well no. We have evidence to support scientific theory such as evolution. We have no evidence to support the existence of God. Not that I'm saying God doesn't exist, I'm just saying that we have no evidence.

Isn't the Bible evidence of god? Jesus doing all the gooseberry fool he did?

The bible has to be discounted because none of it is first-hand information, and it is merely a collection of stories that pleased a group of church leaders when it was compiled. There were many other gospels and storied that were completely left out.

Balloon Sod wrote:

Falsey wrote:

Memento Mori wrote:

Falsey wrote:

Memento Mori wrote:

MCN wrote:The way I see it,if I were to force my children down the atheism route, then I would be as bad as those who force their children into religion. For me, it is all about the freedom of choice.

I disagree. If my kid asks me do unicorns exist I'm going to say no, same with god. You're not forcing kids to be atheist, just stating the facts.

But its not a fact, There is nothing, anywhere, that proves this.

Is there any proof unicorns exist? As there isn't I think it's safe to assume they don't.

So you can say to the child 'I dont think Unicorns exist' and 'I dont think god exists'

If there's no evidence, there's no reason to entertain the idea.

There's as much evidence for both as there is an 8th day of the week, a 25th hour in the day and a 13th month in the year. Let's stop beating around the bush.

This kind of wishy-washy nonsense is thanks to the promotion of a bastardisation of 'respect'. As if all ideas are equally worthy.

Kid: "Was Newton a grasshopper that dressed like a Soho Dandy?"

Dad: "I don't think so"

Kid: "Did Einstein go to special school?"

Dad: "I don't think so"

That is an utterly ridiculous comment. You know how much of what is now known as scientific fact was once rubbished due to lack of evidence?

Hope and optimism are powerful things, yo.

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:

Igor wrote:That's all well and good, but when you're 6 year old kid comes up to you and asks where everything came from, are you really going to say 'well son, there are two schools of thought; one says that God made everything. Christians, Jews and Muslims believe this. The other says that the universe resulted from a giant explosion, and over billions of years the Earth and everything on it got to the point it's at now through a process known as evolution.

Feel free to believe which ever one you want.'

No, you wouldn't do that to a 6 year old child. [Okay, edit time. You being MCN, you'll probably say that you would, just to be argumentative. Whatever.

I'm not MCN, but I would literally say something along those lines to my child...

I wouldn't say 'there are two schools of thought' but I would tell him what the scientifically accepted theory of the time stated and then afterward I would explain about religion.

Are you telling me when your six year old child comes up and asks you you're going to simply say God did it?

I was focusing more on the 'Feel free to believe which ever one you want' part of the paragraph, really. MCN said that he'd let his children decide - I'm sorry, and I might be alone here, but expecting a 6 year old child to decide for themselves what they believe when presented with statements they have no way of understanding is as irresponsible as forcing either belief on them.

Just as an aside, I was told that 'God did it' (in reality, people don't just say 'God did it', to children. But for the sake of this conversation, we'll run with that) until I was old enough to fully understand every argument, and make my own mind up. I turned out fine, as do many, many others.

I wouldn't say marriage is a laughable thing to do, it's a bond of two people. Though it's connected to religion, I don't see why two people who love each other can't do such a thing.

Falsey wrote:

Balloon Sod wrote:

Falsey wrote:You know what bro, I dont need thicker skin.

I think its pretty unfair that such a major moment in my life is being belittled and ridiculed.

If it made you happy, good for you. But it doesn't change the fact that a man splashed water on you and said some words.

If you see that as ridicule, what does that say? That's exactly what happened. So should we not say anything in order to respect your views? Or should be phrase it differently?

Because, as I see it, saying "a man splashed water on you and said some words" is pretty much the only way to describe it at a base level.

It's the same as saying "A man was nailed to a cross". I can't say "The son of God was nailed to a cross and died for our sins", as I can't believe that. Just as I can't say that the water being splashed and the words being uttered welcomed you into heaven.

And as such, Id have no issue over that. But being told that I had magic water splashed on me, and then a pervert cast a spell on me is somewhat belittling, No?

The pervert thing, perhaps. The spell thing, no. It's purely semantic. You're upset because of the words "magic water" and "spell", as they don't form part of the Catholic lexicon. They do, however, sound like something a Pagan would use.

I don't think that's belittling.

The amount of cover-ups in your crooked church make me feel a little sick, but it's unfair to pinpoint people we don't know. And it was a joke. Here's another:

Christopher Hitchens on the Catholic motto: "No child's behind left".

Jaxley wrote:I wouldn't say marriage is a laughable thing to do, it's a bond of two people. Though it's connected to religion, I don't see why two people who love each other can't do such a thing.

It's mostly a legal thing now.

Falsey wrote:

Balloon Sod wrote:If there's no evidence, there's no reason to entertain the idea.
"

That is an utterly ridiculous comment. You know how much of what is now known as scientific fact was once rubbished due to lack of evidence?

But we found the evidence, thus bringing it into the realms of science

It isn't ridiculous at all.

Hey guys Falsey's trolling you

Bye Guys

Irene Demova wrote:Hey guys Falsey's trolling you

Bye Guys

Oh.

Oh dear

Ok, This is all getting cloudy now. Let me reinforce my stance so you know where I am, and can adjust your abuse accordingly. lol, yo.

I believe there may be something bigger than me at work in the universe, whether thats an intelligent designer, preplanned universe, matrix, I dont know. FAO: I believe and accept the big bang as scientific fact.

Im not a creationist, I believe and support the theory of evolution.

Im not godsquad, I dont go to church.

Christening was an important point in my life. And as already mocked, I do take offence at the magic comments.

When teaching my child about religion, I would do so in much the same vein as the birds and the bees. Its not something that can be glossed over in 10 mins, I would take him/her aside and ensure he was aware of fact/theory/belief and beliefs of other people. Id explain the concept of morality, and reinforce the fact that its totally up to them which path they want to take, if any. Id ensure that they also had respect for others and their beliefs.

I dont think Ive missed anything off, But I probably have.

I sort of do, but at the same time really don't, want to hear MCN and the rest of his heretic sect to give me their opinions on the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_o ... of_the_Sun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Secr ... %C3%A1tima

I'm not giving an opinion personally, mainly because I don't have one, but I feel an eagerness to find out what your opinions are despite by and large already knowing what they'll be.

And I aint trollin.

MCN wrote:

NickSCFC wrote:

MCN wrote:

Jonathan86 wrote:I believe it's a good thing to introduce religion into a kids life. Not really for the 'worship your maker' thing, but for the moral values it teaches.

It is perfectly possible to teach morality without religion. If I have kids, I will allow them to believe what they want, and to make their own decisions about religion based on evidence.

Morality is natural, I believe it's the key to our survival as a species and half the reason we've come so far? Does it need to be taught?

I do think it needs to be taught, and it is the teaching of morality throughout the generations that has enabled it to be so pervasive, and in turn has helped us get this far. For example, a toddler with a toy generally will not share that toy with another toddler until they have been taught to share.

Or until they experience the feeling of being with another toddler who has a toy who does not wish to shar said toy.

We'll leave 'how would you feel if someone did that to you' as a case for moral decency for another day

Scotticus Erroticus wrote:I sort of do, but at the same time really don't, want to hear MCN and the rest of his heretic sect to give me their opinions on the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_o ... of_the_Sun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Secr ... %C3%A1tima

I'm not giving an opinion personally, mainly because I don't have one, but I feel an eagerness to find out what your opinions are despite by and large already knowing what they'll be.

I have a hypothesis about the first one. Look at a light source for a short amount of time. As you know, you get a persistant image for a little while.

Now, the human eye is not a static thing, it is constantly moving and adjusting, usually completely involuntarily. If you're looking at a relatively bright light source surrounded by dim clouds, the cimbination of the persistent image and the eye's movement could make it seem as if the sun itself is shifting and moving.

By the way, has anyone ever come accross VenomFangX on YouTube?

He tries to sound smart with hilarious results



1:00 onwards

Oh dear.

Anyway, I dislike those who try to force their beliefs on others - they give away free toasties at my Uni's Christian Union on a Tuesday night(traditionally cheap booze night) and there used to be an irritating guy who would try to convert the boozed up students to Christianity. But that's not the point. I believe what I want and it's none of your business unless I choose to tell you. It doesn't make me more or less intelligent than you are and to re-iterate and be quite frank, it's none of your concern what I do in my own time - I don't force anything onto anyone so strop trying to convert me to Islam/Judaism/Christianity/Atheism/Spaghetti Monsterism, because it won't happen. I understand that many religions hold the conversion of others deeply in their doctrines, but I simply can't reconcile the bullying of others into believing in something out of fear, it's not what anyone I want to worship would want. Similarly with militant atheists(Not naming names here, I don't think any of you would try and harangue me into renouncing all Gods if I met you in the pub!)who don't help their cause.

I'm sure someone will pick holes in what I say, and I'm fairly sure it's Mind Crime who believes all religious people are inherently stupid, but you know, whatever. Each to their own. Possibly those of you who were around a few years ago may or may not remember the explicit opinion I held of religion back then and be like WTF, but I was about fifteen years old last time I properly entered a debate on the forum about the subject so y'know, lol.

EDIT: That was totally off topic, sorry.

Anyway, RE: Children. I think that there's little I can say that would add to the topic, so I'll stay mostly out of it. I will say that my education didn't do me any harm.