Coronavirus & stuff

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Photek
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Photek » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:04 pm

Rex Kramer wrote:I think the previous 12 week gap has all but been abandoned, two people in my office had their first jabs at the weekend and both have an 8 week gap now. My second jab was brought forward as well to 8 weeks (last weekend).


My Pfizer one is a 4 weeks gap and the 12 week one for Astra has been cut to 8 over here too.

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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by That » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:10 pm

Hexx wrote:My ‘so what’ was more in response to the political/right wing angle that seems to be ‘it was China’s fault’ to distract from or dimish local government failings rather than the entire topic.

Totally. Far-right weirdos are so keen on this unlikely idea that they've been pushing it continuously since the pandemic reached here, despite it having no supporting evidence at all. Of course I support scientific inquiry into the origins, whatever they may be - I'm skiving a few minutes off researching the ongoing evolution of Covid-19, which is my actual job, to write this post! - but the propaganda being generated here in the west isn't to support "establishing facts", and it's not even really about "justice" / "accountability" though they'll use that line to make it seem respectable to centrists - it's about finding or inventing an external cause to blame for all the death and destruction, one fits into a nationalistic narrative and can serve to drive an imperialist response.

It probably wasn't a lab leak. If it were, that's a scientific and probably regulatory matter, something for bodies like the WHO to deal with. I wouldn't support the UK having any kind of retaliatory / retributive political response against China in that hypothetical scenario because it simply wouldn't change who is responsible for the 150k death toll in the UK and any response would be theatrics to distract from that. The responsibility is entirely with the UK government. I'm deeply suspicious of people who seem to desperately want to centre the idea of blaming / "holding to account" China in the ongoing political aspect of the pandemic. It's a ploy, a way for the Boris Johnsons of the world to lie and fallaciously say "see, it wasn't my fault", as well as a way for the racists and nationalists of the world to fallaciously say "see, we were right".

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Grumpy David
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Grumpy David » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:27 pm

Rex Kramer wrote:I think the previous 12 week gap has all but been abandoned, two people in my office had their first jabs at the weekend and both have an 8 week gap now. My second jab was brought forward as well to 8 weeks (last weekend).


Looks like the website has updated to make booking an earlier appointment easier too.

twitter.com/fordie/status/1405281727761711109


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speedboatchase
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by speedboatchase » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:40 pm

Karl_ wrote:
Hexx wrote:My ‘so what’ was more in response to the political/right wing angle that seems to be ‘it was China’s fault’ to distract from or dimish local government failings rather than the entire topic.

Totally. Far-right weirdos are so keen on this unlikely idea that they've been pushing it continuously since the pandemic reached here, despite it having no supporting evidence at all. Of course I support scientific inquiry into the origins, whatever they may be - I'm skiving a few minutes off researching the ongoing evolution of Covid-19, which is my actual job, to write this post! - but the propaganda being generated here in the west isn't to support "establishing facts", and it's not even really about "justice" / "accountability" though they'll use that line to make it seem respectable to centrists - it's about finding an external cause to blame for all the death and destruction, one fits into a nationalistic narrative and can serve to drive an imperialist response.

It probably wasn't a lab leak. If it were, that's a scientific and probably regulatory matter, something for bodies like the WHO to deal with. I wouldn't support the UK having any kind of retaliatory / retributive political response against China in that hypothetical scenario because it simply wouldn't change who is responsible for the 150k death toll in the UK and any response would be theatrics to distract from that. The responsibility is entirely with the UK government. I'm deeply suspicious of people who seem to desperately want to centre the idea of blaming / "holding to account" China in the ongoing political aspect of the pandemic. It's a ploy, a way for the Boris Johnsons of the world to lie and fallaciously say "see, it wasn't my fault", as well as a way for the racists and nationalists of the world to fallaciously say "see, we were right".


I'm sorry but we have to be able to discuss two separate things here and be damning of Boris and the CCP.

There is no 'probably was' or might be' regarding the origin. The WHO does not have credibility in matters of China, as was clear when its assistant director general pretended he couldn't hear a Skype call question about Taiwan. We will never know what happened regarding the origins of the virus, but we do know that the CCP mishandled its outbreak and that they were happy to allow flights out of the country but not within. Bit unusual, in addition to the vehemence of their response to Australia when it suggested a global inquiry into the virus origins too.

As I said, there is likely no way we'll get any closer than the CCP lets us in knowing more about the origins, but the idea that you posited a few pages ago - that if the lab leak was real: 'Who would it help, what would it achieve?' - sounds a bit we shouldn't even try to investigate. The more we know, the better. A few years ago we knew nothing about ongoing genocide in Xinjiang, but all the better that we do.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Lagamorph » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:41 pm

Unfortunately it's still super limited. It will only check for earlier appointments at your currently booked location.
If you want to check for earlier dates at another location you still have to cancel first by the looks of things.

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Victor Mildew
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Victor Mildew » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:46 pm

Lagamorph wrote:Unfortunately it's still super limited. It will only check for earlier appointments at your currently booked location.
If you want to check for earlier dates at another location you still have to cancel first by the looks of things.


The whole book it yourself thing sounds like a right ballache and unnecessarily stressful. The Welsh system is so much better - a letter arrives, "your appointment is here at this time, please call this number if you can't make it". Have that, wait a bit, second letter says the same.

No pissing about trying to manage your own appointment gaps or anything.

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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Jenuall » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:50 pm

Victor Mildew wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:Unfortunately it's still super limited. It will only check for earlier appointments at your currently booked location.
If you want to check for earlier dates at another location you still have to cancel first by the looks of things.


The whole book it yourself thing sounds like a right ballache and unnecessarily stressful. The Welsh system is so much better - a letter arrives, "your appointment is here at this time, please call this number if you can't make it". Have that, wait a bit, second letter says the same.

No pissing about trying to manage your own appointment gaps or anything.

Welsh Supremacy :datass:

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Victor Mildew
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Victor Mildew » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:51 pm

Bet you wish you hadn't defected to Exeter now :capnscotty:

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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by That » Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:05 pm

speedboatchase wrote:There is no 'probably was' or might be' regarding the origin. The WHO does not have credibility in matters of China

You are free to hold that opinion, but that isn't the opinion of most scientists in the field. The idea that Covid-19 likely originated via animal transmission is not controversial scientifically. I personally think the WHO have put in a mostly good effort during the pandemic and I don't think that would be a controversial take with my colleagues either.

I agree that it is difficult to achieve certainty in any investigation given the close interest of the state - I think that would actually be the case in any country, but it certainly does apply to China. It might not be possible to rule out being lied to, but you can investigate and narrow down on balance, which is what the WHO has done (and might choose to continue doing). I don't think there is any investigation that could possibly satisfy you if you think the international organisation through which such an investigation would have to be coordinated is compromised / conspirational. (You acknowledge this a bit later yourself, in fairness.)

speedboatchase wrote:As I said, there is likely no way we'll get any closer than the CCP lets us in knowing more about the origins, but the idea that you posited a few pages ago - that if the lab leak was real: 'Who would it help, what would it achieve?' - sounds a bit we shouldn't even try to investigate. The more we know, the better. A few years ago we knew nothing about ongoing genocide in Xinjiang, but all the better that we do.

The quote was:

Karl_ wrote:I'm sure even "moderates" will be demanding "punishment". Who would it help, what would it achieve?

I think I'm actually being fairly clear there, to be fair to me, particularly as I've said I'm happy about scientific inquiry into the origin several times now. I'm not happy with the focus politicians and the media are putting on one remote possibility in that field, which is a component of an overarching far-right nationalist narrative calling for blame or punishment or retribution, in order to encourage racism and propagandise for imperialist foreign policy.

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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Return_of_the_STAR » Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:21 pm

Grumpy David wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:I think the previous 12 week gap has all but been abandoned, two people in my office had their first jabs at the weekend and both have an 8 week gap now. My second jab was brought forward as well to 8 weeks (last weekend).


Looks like the website has updated to make booking an earlier appointment easier too.

twitter.com/fordie/status/1405281727761711109



Thanks I’ll look into this as well as my second dose is a full 12 weeks after my first.

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speedboatchase
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by speedboatchase » Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:28 pm

Karl_ wrote:
speedboatchase wrote:There is no 'probably was' or might be' regarding the origin. The WHO does not have credibility in matters of China

You are free to hold that opinion, but that isn't the opinion of most scientists in the field. The idea that Covid-19 likely originated via animal transmission is not controversial scientifically. I personally think the WHO have put in a mostly good effort during the pandemic and I don't think that would be a controversial take with my colleagues either.

I agree that it is difficult to achieve certainty in any investigation given the close interest of the state - I think that would actually be the case in any country, but it certainly does apply to China. It might not be possible to rule out being lied to, but you can investigate and narrow down on balance, which is what the WHO has done (and might choose to continue doing). I don't think there is any investigation that could possibly satisfy you if you think the international organisation through which such an investigation would have to be coordinated is compromised / conspirational. (You acknowledge this a bit later yourself, in fairness.)

speedboatchase wrote:As I said, there is likely no way we'll get any closer than the CCP lets us in knowing more about the origins, but the idea that you posited a few pages ago - that if the lab leak was real: 'Who would it help, what would it achieve?' - sounds a bit we shouldn't even try to investigate. The more we know, the better. A few years ago we knew nothing about ongoing genocide in Xinjiang, but all the better that we do.

The quote was:

Karl_ wrote:I'm sure even "moderates" will be demanding "punishment". Who would it help, what would it achieve?

I think I'm actually being fairly clear there, to be fair to me, particularly I've said I'm happy about scientific inquiry into the origin several times now. I'm not happy with the focus politicians and the media are putting on one remote possibility in that field, which are a component of an overarching far-right nationalist narrative calling for blame or punishment or retribution, in order to encourage racism and propagandise for imperialist foreign policy.


The nature of Taiwan's exclusion from the WHO means it is compromised. A staggering amount of Western bodies and conglomerates are too. Being compromised on behalf of China is part of the deal, as we saw when Pakistan, Saudi, UAE and Qatar were signatories of a letter that defended the CCP's 'vocation education and training centers' for Uighurs. Get that Belt and Road RMB!

My view we need to keep up any momentum of pushing for all inquiries into the origin, and for China to be open as possible to that too. I'm open to all possibilities and agree with you about the potential for this to become a rallying cry for far-right populism - that's something that could grow and mutate the longer people feel no answers are forthcoming. I don't like the look of the global picture post-Covid at all.

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Ecno
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Ecno » Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:48 pm

Thanks guys, managed to bring forward my second vaccination by 2 and a bit weeks.

Edit: I've now read you should only do this if over 40. They should have flagged that on the website a bit more!.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Hexx » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:44 pm

11k new cases!

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Victor Mildew
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Victor Mildew » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:52 pm

OPEN EVERYTHING!

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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Jenuall » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:53 pm

Bring on freedom day! :toot:

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Victor Mildew
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Victor Mildew » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:55 pm

Jenuall wrote:Bring on freedom day! :toot:


If this is freedom then bring it on!

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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Jenuall » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:01 pm

Rate of increase in hospital admissions is also on par with if not higher than when the gooseberry fool started to hit the fan last September as well. :dread:

We did it folks! :toot:

Last edited by Jenuall on Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Victor Mildew
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Victor Mildew » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:07 pm

Worth it for 2 weeks of going to the pub though!

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Moggy
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Moggy » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:48 pm

It was worth it for that India trade deal :toot:

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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Neo Cortex » Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:08 pm

Bumped mine forward the other day, when you still had to cancel. Only got a boost from Aug 7th to July 31. But not to be sniffed at when my first was May 22nd.


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