Coronavirus & stuff

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Lex-Man** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:53 am

Karl_ wrote:What do you mean? As a private company they sold their supply to the government willing to give them the best deal, instead of distributing it on more humanitarian grounds. What isn't capitalistic about it?

But they could sell a temporary license to European companies to supply the EU for example, so for every pill sold in the EU they take a cut. This would be more profitable as they would be able to sell their supply to the US government and then get more money from sales in the EU. It's like how Britvic makes Pepsi in the UK under license from PepsiCo, or Blockbuster in the UK was a different company from the US but paid a licencing fee to use the brand here. It's hardly an unusual situation.

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Winckle** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:54 am

Karl_ wrote:What do you mean? As a private company they sold their supply to the government willing to give them the best deal, instead of distributing it on more humanitarian grounds. What isn't capitalistic about it?

No no, as a liberal capitalism is great because it things like being able to choose from 20 brands of nearly identical brands of spaghetti, but when something bad happens that's crony capitalism, totally different thing.

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Vermilion** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:58 am

Love the Daily Star's cut out mask on their front page today...

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **That** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:59 am

Lex-Man wrote:
Karl_ wrote:What do you mean? As a private company they sold their supply to the government willing to give them the best deal, instead of distributing it on more humanitarian grounds. What isn't capitalistic about it?

But they could sell a temporary license to European companies to supply the EU for example, so for every pill sold in the EU they take a cut. This would be more profitable as they would be able to sell their supply to the US government and then get more money from sales in the EU. It's like how Britvic makes Pepsi in the UK under license from PepsiCo, or Blockbuster in the UK was a different company from the US but paid a licencing fee to use the brand here. It's hardly an unusual situation.

Their process for producing the drug is a trade secret, so they probably don't want to license it to other companies or governments.

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Victor Mildew** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:02 am

The best part is so many Americans are anti Vax, a fair proportion of those stocks will be wasted.

TOTALLY INOCULATES THE PRESIDENT! THANK YOU.

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **That** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:03 am

Winckle wrote:No no, as a liberal capitalism is great because it things like being able to choose from 20 brands of nearly identical brands of spaghetti, but when something bad happens that's crony capitalism, totally different thing.

Actually sweaty, capitalism can't be unfair. Everyone has an equal chance to make money and it's only natural that the best people with the most money can buy the best things. You're just jealous.

> Country with most money buys all the best coronavirus drugs

Ah, well, in real capitalism,

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Lagamorph** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:11 am

From what I gather the development of the Remdesivir drug was supported by at least $70million of US Taxpayer investment, and the company are then selling the drug back for $2,500 per dose despite the production cost being about $10 per dose.

Corazon de Leon · PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Corazon de Leon** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:17 am

Lagamorph wrote:From what I gather the development of the Remdesivir drug was supported by at least $70million of US Taxpayer investment, and the company are then selling the drug back for $2,500 per dose despite the production cost being about $10 per dose.

I despise the American healthcare system. Genuinely despicable stuff.

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Lex-Man** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:20 am

Karl_ wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Karl_ wrote:What do you mean? As a private company they sold their supply to the government willing to give them the best deal, instead of distributing it on more humanitarian grounds. What isn't capitalistic about it?

But they could sell a temporary license to European companies to supply the EU for example, so for every pill sold in the EU they take a cut. This would be more profitable as they would be able to sell their supply to the US government and then get more money from sales in the EU. It's like how Britvic makes Pepsi in the UK under license from PepsiCo, or Blockbuster in the UK was a different company from the US but paid a licencing fee to use the brand here. It's hardly an unusual situation.

Their process for producing the drug is a trade secret, so they probably don't want to license it to other companies or governments.

That may be so, but I'd argue that, that view is stopping them maximising their profits because:

1) The window of time this drug will be valuable for is probably pretty limited so the trade secret will be worthless in a year or so.
2) If another company wanted to make a generic version it'd be pretty easy for them. I believe that this happens in India all the time.
3) You could stipulate that the company stops making the drug in the contract with financial penalties written in, so if they keep doing it you sue them for breach of contract.

Basically if it was my company I would be licencing out the drug because it's clearly the a) ethical thing to do and b) the most profitable thing to do.

Winckle wrote:
Karl_ wrote:What do you mean? As a private company they sold their supply to the government willing to give them the best deal, instead of distributing it on more humanitarian grounds. What isn't capitalistic about it?

No no, as a liberal capitalism is great because it things like being able to choose from 20 brands of nearly identical brands of spaghetti, but when something bad happens that's crony capitalism, totally different thing.

I don't think this an example of Crony Capitalism as that's when you pay off the government to allow you to have a monopoly, this is just all kinds of dumb. That said really the government should just come in and force some kind of licencing so supply can be met and the fact that governments are scared to step when capitalism has clearly failed is a huge problem.

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **That** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:28 am

Lex-Man wrote:That may be so, but I'd argue that, that view is stopping them maximising their profits because:

1) The window of time this drug will be valuable for is probably pretty limited so the trade secret will be worthless in a year or so.
2) If another company wanted to make a generic version it'd be pretty easy for them. I believe that this happens in India all the time.
3) You could stipulate that the company stops making the drug in the contract with financial penalties written in, so if they keep doing it you sue them for breach of contract.

I don't think any of those really apply, even within the framework of liberal capitalism, because
1. The drug will probably remain important as a broad-spectrum antiviral in the future
2. It is a very difficult to drug to synthesise and it is probably not possible for other companies or governments to synthesise the drug in the near future, it would likely be a long-term effort for other countries or companies to build up the capacity
3. Labs in many large markets (most obviously China) will probably not respect your contracts / NDAs / etc. on a drug that is seen as a matter of national importance

Lex-Man wrote:Basically if it was my company I would be licencing out the drug because it's clearly the a) ethical thing to do and b) the most profitable thing to do.

I am sure you would distribute it according to an international medical consensus if you wholly owned the private company making it, because you are a good person. However Gilead is accountable to shareholders who only care about the personal pursuit of your point (b).

I don't see why you are so reticent to accept that the profit motive and/or the protection of their private (or "intellectual") property is at the root of most shitty things corporations do.

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Lagamorph** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:49 am

36 areas at risk of being put under local lockdown

Redcar and Cleveland where I live is on the list...

Havering
Wiltshire
Wandsworth
Gloucestershire
Ealing
Hammersmith and Fulham
Doncaster
Plymouth
Barking and Dagenham
Westminster
Milton Keynes
Wakefield
Haringey
Medway
Hounslow
Brent
Harrow
Kensington and Chelsea
Slough
Suffolk
Redbridge
Sandwell
Enfield
Tower Hamlets
York
Sunderland
Wigan
Windsor and Maidenhead
Leicester
Gateshead
Isle of Wight
Richmond upon Thames
Portsmouth
Redcar and Cleveland
Derbyshire
Walsall

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by KK » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:56 am

Kensington and Chelsea
Richmond upon Thames

Damn difficult to social distance in a Range Rover from other Range Rovers.

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Victor Mildew** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:57 am

If this is super Saturday then bring it on!

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Lex-Man** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:02 pm

Corazon de Leon wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:From what I gather the development of the Remdesivir drug was supported by at least $70million of US Taxpayer investment, and the company are then selling the drug back for $2,500 per dose despite the production cost being about $10 per dose.

I despise the American healthcare system. Genuinely despicable stuff.

Most drug research in the US is done by the US Government and then sold off for pennies on the research cost it's actually horrible.

That list can't be the full list as they're talking about doing the same in Southend.

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/185494 ... continues/

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Rex Kramer** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:07 pm

Lagamorph wrote:36 areas at risk of being put under local lockdown

Redcar and Cleveland where I live is on the list...

Havering
Wiltshire
Wandsworth
Gloucestershire
Ealing
Hammersmith and Fulham
Doncaster
Plymouth
Barking and Dagenham
Westminster
Milton Keynes
Wakefield
Haringey
Medway
Hounslow
Brent
Harrow
Kensington and Chelsea
Slough
Suffolk
Redbridge
Sandwell
Enfield
Tower Hamlets
York
Sunderland
Wigan
Windsor and Maidenhead
Leicester
Gateshead
Isle of Wight
Richmond upon Thames
Portsmouth
Redcar and Cleveland
Derbyshire
Walsall

I've a feeling that any location is probably only an increase in testing away from being locked down.

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Buffalo** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:17 pm

I don’t understand what data they could be using - Sunderland hasn’t had a case for at least a week.

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Drumstick** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:33 pm

Sad not to see my local areas on the list.

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Garth** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:34 pm

Buffalo wrote:I don’t understand what data they could be using - Sunderland hasn’t had a case for at least a week.

Does that include Pillar 2 cases?
https://www.ft.com/content/301c847c-a31 ... 66933d423a

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Buffalo** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:46 pm

Garth wrote:
Buffalo wrote:I don’t understand what data they could be using - Sunderland hasn’t had a case for at least a week.

Does that include Pillar 2 cases?
https://www.ft.com/content/301c847c-a31 ... 66933d423a

Pass

PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff by **Garth** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:59 pm

Northern Ireland is planning to release its own coronavirus contact-tracing app within weeks, the BBC has learned.

It follows the failure of the NHS app in England, which was trialled on the Isle of Wight.

The NI app will be based on the Google/Apple model.

It is designed to be compatible with an app due to be released soon in the Republic of Ireland. That app is also based on the toolkit provided by Apple and Google.

The Apple and Google model is more privacy-focused, but provides less data to epidemiologists than the centralised version that England was trialling.

"The Health Minister has commissioned work to develop a proximity app, based on the de-centralised Google/ Apple model, for use in Northern Ireland," said the Northern Ireland Department of Health in a statement.

"This work includes examining the interoperability of apps and the sharing of information across the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic," it said.

It added that the Information Commissioner, Equality Commission and NI Human Rights Commission were all involved in exploring "statutory information governance, equality and human rights issues", and that their assessments would be published.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53200521

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