Coronavirus & stuff

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Hexx
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Hexx » Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:46 am

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... says-court

The government policy towards care homes in England at the start of the Covid pandemic has been ruled illegal, in a significant blow to ministers’ claim to have thrown a “protective ring” around the vulnerable residents.

The high court judgment was sought by two grieving daughters, Dr Cathy Gardner and Fay Harris, who lost their fathers to the virus in care homes in spring 2020. Michael Gibson died aged 88 in Oxfordshire on 3 April 2020 while Don Harris died aged 89 in Hampshire on 1 May 2020, both after outbreaks in their care homes.

More than a quarter of all deaths among care home residents in March and April 2020 involved Covid-19 – more than 12,500 people. Lawyers for Gardner, 60, and Harris, 58, had argued in a judicial review the government did the “very opposite” of the claim by then health secretary, Matt Hancock, that “right from the start we have tried to throw a protective ring around our care homes”.

After an almost 22-month crowdfunded legal challenge to the legality of policies advanced by the health secretary, Public Health England and NHS England, the verdict was handed down on Wednesday.

Lord Justice Bean and Mr Justice Garnham said: “The decisions of the secretary of state for health and social care to make and maintain a series of policies contained in documents issued on 17 and 19 March and 2 April 2020 were unlawful because the drafters of those documents failed to take into account the risk to elderly and vulnerable residents from non-symptomatic transmission.”

As ministers and officials pushed to free up space in hospitals by discharging 25,000 hospital patients into care homes, government guidance issued on 2 April 2020 said negative tests were not required prior to transfers.

The daughters had argued the failure to protect care home residents was among the most “egregious and devastating policy failures in the modern era”.

During proceedings government lawyers denied any policy failure and told the court that scientists did not advise of “firm evidence” of asymptomatic transmission until mid-April 2020. They said fears of hospitals becoming overwhelmed were “far from being theoretical” and that ministers had to balance competing harms amid enormous challenges.

The judges said the risk of asymptomatic transmission had been highlighted by people including Sir Patrick Vallance, the government’s chief scientific adviser, in a radio interview as early as 13 March.

“Non-symptomatic transmission would mean that one elderly patient moved from hospital to a care home could infect other residents before manifesting symptoms, or even without ever manifesting symptoms,” they said.

“The judges found that it was irrational for the DHSC not to have advised until mid-April 2020 that where an asymptomatic patient (other than one who had tested negative for Covid-19) was admitted to a care home, he or she should, so far as practicable, be kept apart from other residents for 14 days.”

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Hexx
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Hexx » Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:46 am

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... says-court

The government policy towards care homes in England at the start of the Covid pandemic has been ruled illegal, in a significant blow to ministers’ claim to have thrown a “protective ring” around the vulnerable residents.

The high court judgment was sought by two grieving daughters, Dr Cathy Gardner and Fay Harris, who lost their fathers to the virus in care homes in spring 2020. Michael Gibson died aged 88 in Oxfordshire on 3 April 2020 while Don Harris died aged 89 in Hampshire on 1 May 2020, both after outbreaks in their care homes.

More than a quarter of all deaths among care home residents in March and April 2020 involved Covid-19 – more than 12,500 people. Lawyers for Gardner, 60, and Harris, 58, had argued in a judicial review the government did the “very opposite” of the claim by then health secretary, Matt Hancock, that “right from the start we have tried to throw a protective ring around our care homes”.

After an almost 22-month crowdfunded legal challenge to the legality of policies advanced by the health secretary, Public Health England and NHS England, the verdict was handed down on Wednesday.

Lord Justice Bean and Mr Justice Garnham said: “The decisions of the secretary of state for health and social care to make and maintain a series of policies contained in documents issued on 17 and 19 March and 2 April 2020 were unlawful because the drafters of those documents failed to take into account the risk to elderly and vulnerable residents from non-symptomatic transmission.”

As ministers and officials pushed to free up space in hospitals by discharging 25,000 hospital patients into care homes, government guidance issued on 2 April 2020 said negative tests were not required prior to transfers.

The daughters had argued the failure to protect care home residents was among the most “egregious and devastating policy failures in the modern era”.

During proceedings government lawyers denied any policy failure and told the court that scientists did not advise of “firm evidence” of asymptomatic transmission until mid-April 2020. They said fears of hospitals becoming overwhelmed were “far from being theoretical” and that ministers had to balance competing harms amid enormous challenges.

The judges said the risk of asymptomatic transmission had been highlighted by people including Sir Patrick Vallance, the government’s chief scientific adviser, in a radio interview as early as 13 March.

“Non-symptomatic transmission would mean that one elderly patient moved from hospital to a care home could infect other residents before manifesting symptoms, or even without ever manifesting symptoms,” they said.

“The judges found that it was irrational for the DHSC not to have advised until mid-April 2020 that where an asymptomatic patient (other than one who had tested negative for Covid-19) was admitted to a care home, he or she should, so far as practicable, be kept apart from other residents for 14 days.”

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Drumstick
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Drumstick » Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:55 pm

Dreadful.

Another thing to chuck on the "should be illegal" list with reference to care homes.

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Zilnad
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Zilnad » Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:57 pm

What does this mean for the government? I assume "now is not the time to dwell on something that happened in the past"?

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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Jenuall » Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:58 pm

Good to get a clear ruling on it.

That we're having to crowd fund legal challenges to hold our own government to account is pretty shocking overall really.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Hexx » Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:05 pm

Zilnad wrote:What does this mean for the government? I assume "now is not the time to dwell on something that happened in the past"?


Nothing. The health secretary at the time has gone.

"We did our best and the virus was unknown at the time" was Johnson's off the cuff reply during PMQs (ignoring the ruling says they ignored what they did know). "Lessons to be learned"

Tory Voters have their answer to continue to voting for murders

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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Moggy » Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:06 pm

Zilnad wrote:What does this mean for the government? I assume "now is not the time to dwell on something that happened in the past"?


It's time to move on! Imagine if Corbyn was in charge! World beating response!

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Nibble
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Nibble » Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:16 pm

Given this scumbag government's track record they'll probably try to change the law and apply it retroactively - "See, we did nothing wrong!".

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gaminglegend
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by gaminglegend » Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:48 am

My partners come down with the virus over the past week. Shes been quite ill with it in terms of the cough and such. Meanwhile I’ve been right as rain, even with the small size of our flat.

Just seems so strange how people can be jabbed to the hilt, still get it, but someone in the same household also jabbed doesn’t catch it from them

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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Jenuall » Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:50 am

Woken up feeling like utter crud today but I've ran out of LFTs so I've got no idea if the virus has got me again or I'm just ill with something else

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RetroCora
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by RetroCora » Fri Apr 29, 2022 10:28 am

I too have been struck by Covid. Generally it's just a bad flu for me atm, struggling to look at screens and focus, terrible headache etc etc. Caps off a pretty intensely gooseberry fool month really.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Rex Kramer » Fri Apr 29, 2022 10:59 am

Quick question in response to Wankcock's assertion that they knew nothing about asymptomatic transmission when they sent all those people off to care houses to infect and kill people. I'm pretty certain that it was common knowledge that a fairly large percentage of people had either very mild or no symptoms of Covid right from the beginning of the pandemic, is that the case?

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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Jenuall » Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:01 am

Yeah, it's bullshit history rewriting

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jimbojango
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by jimbojango » Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:42 pm

It’s interesting as I sit here, now infected after avoiding it for over 2 years despite working in the NHS and wandering about Covid red zones, to reflect how the initial responses played out.

The emergency planning kicked in, and was predicting mass admissions of near dying highly contagious patients. Immediate capacity was the primary concern, so it was more beds, open any mothballed buildings and even throw up some new ones. We enacted the zombie apocalypse model.

Now, in hindsight that simple reaction had the unintended consequences of moving a risk from one area to another, and care homes suffered. Did we push these people out to take their chances out there, only to never get the bodies in the hospital corridor scenario that drove the response?

To be honest, I’m my current state of mind I have gone from pleased at the response to realising the brief unity and mutual support was an aberration. People are back to full on selfishness and entitlement, with even less regard for eachother, their environment and the impact their behaviour has on future generations. I don’t know if I can still work in the NHS the way I used to, just seem to have lost my faith in the meaning of things.

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Green Gecko
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Green Gecko » Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:33 pm

Grumpy David wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/interactive/2022/china-researcher-covid-19-coverup/?itid=hp_opinions

If the paywall kicks in, try this link.

THE WASHINGTON POST’S VIEW

Opinion: As the pandemic exploded, a researcher saw the danger. China’s leaders kept silent.

Her story points to a coverup with tragic consequences of historic proportion. A severe danger was concealed until it was too late. It came about because of a culture that prioritizes political stability at any cost, extraordinary state secrecy, and missteps by public health officials who did not speak out.

The episode serves to underscore once again why a serious investigation is needed to get to the bottom of how the pandemic began. The virus’s origins might have been caused by a zoonotic spillover, a bat coronavirus jumping to humans, possibly with an intermediate host. Or it might have been an inadvertent leak from a laboratory in Wuhan studying bat coronaviruses. Only by learning what really transpired can we reach any conclusions about how to prevent it from happening again. China could go a long way toward finding the answers, but instead it has slammed the door on further inquiry.

Little Mountain Dog wondered how the Wuhan patient got infected. Her first thought, she wrote, was “the history of contact with wild animals,” maybe with bats. But “it was also suspected that some staff working somewhere with man-made viruses may have been infected by accident because of careless handling” — a possibility a colleague had mentioned to her on Dec. 27, recalling a very recent Brucellosis outbreak after an accident at a vaccine plant in China. That colleague also noted at the time that the Wuhan Institute of Virology “is located nearby.”


I do wonder if we'll ever get a smoking gun level of evidence for either origin explanation, but that the Wuhan Accidental Lab Leak is seen just as credible as the filthy unhygienic wet market explanation is an incredible transformation from how it was seen 2 years ago. Even outside of low-trust political systems, accidental lab leaks have happened far more frequently than probably most people would expect, the foot & mouth outbreak in 2007 was caused by a lab leak in Surrey. What I would have considered a "less than once per decade event" is actually much more frequent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity_incidents - from 2000 onwards it seems to be more like a yearly event.


Why China is using guard geese to uphold its zero-COVID policy
Throughout history, territorial and often aggressive domestic geese have been deployed to keep watch over everything from Scotch whisky to military installations.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/why-china-is-using-guard-geese-to-uphold-its-zero-covid-policy

Holy gooseberry fool that video :lol:



Thatcher is most definitely dead there.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Moggy » Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:57 pm

twitter.com/millar_colin/status/1520062275150876673



strawberry floating hell :fp:

twitter.com/felixkeith/status/1520033201246416896



:lol:

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Tomous
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Tomous » Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:01 pm

Lost it at the Malibu bit :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Moggy
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Moggy » Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:04 pm

Tomous wrote:Lost it at the Malibu bit :lol: :lol: :lol:


Le Tis on holiday

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Moggy
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Moggy » Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:12 pm

twitter.com/livooo/status/1520027821640404993



The Malibu bit is funny, but the bit after sounds like he really needs help. The "old white men can't work these days!" bit is standard whining, but thinking that the government and scientists shouldn't interfere? It's hard to tell (yes yes it's probably both) if he has no understanding of what a government is, or if it's a paranoid "they are all after me!" rant.

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Grumpy David
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PostRe: Coronavirus & stuff
by Grumpy David » Sun May 01, 2022 8:56 pm



Seems like Beijing's lockdown will happen any day now.

China’s Biggest Covid Failure Is Not Deploying an mRNA Vaccine

Beijing refuses to allow Western shots even though development of homegrown ones lags.


The Chinese developed mRNA vaccines don't sound promising, seems like eventually they will have to approve Pfizer (and maybe re-label it). Probably not before Xi's term for life is sorted in October.


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