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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by NickSCFC » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:47 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:A white dude. With a gun.


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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by Tafdolphin » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:48 pm

NickSCFC wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:A white dude. With a gun.


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And? Posting a gotcha image from the 19 strawberry floating 80s doesn't change, or even address, anything I just mentioned.

Last edited by Tafdolphin on Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by Jenuall » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:49 pm

Ah the "it was only a joke" defence. ;)

I don't think she was trying to be funny and take the piss, I think she was trying to make serious accusations about the mindset of both those who have made the game and those who it appeals to.

I don't appreciate the idea that because this bland box art hasn't immediately made me want to abandon the game that this makes me a sexist, racist, misogynist dinosaur.

As I've said previously it is a bad design and putting a white man on the cover of a game tackling material which is so much broader than that is incredibly limiting. But the choice to do so does not result in an immediate conclusion that the driver behind that was sexism or misogyny.

Occam's Razor - they know they will sell more games by putting a guy on the cover than anything else. They know this will remain true irrespective of any backlash at that decision. Money wins. There is a bigger question as to whether money should always win, whether taking a stand to promote something bigger than that is worth taking a financial hit (answer: strawberry float yeah!) but I don't imagine CDPR are going to be making that choice any time soon.

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by Tafdolphin » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:51 pm

Jenuall, read the Poe's Law thing.

And I didn't call you any names at all, nor do I think you any of those things. This isn't about you (although 'misjudged' was a...troubling thing to say regarding a trans woman expressing herself online).

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by Mafro » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:51 pm

Absolutely gotten to by a joke twitter thread :lol: :fp:

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by Tafdolphin » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:51 pm

Mafro wrote:Absolutely gotten to by a joke twitter thread :lol: :fp:


ikr?

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by Jenuall » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:58 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:Jenuall, read the Poe's Law thing.

And I didn't call you any names at all, nor do I think you any of those things. This isn't about you (although 'misjudged' was a...troubling thing to say regarding a trans woman expressing herself online).

I am aware of Poe's Law.

I've not said you did call me names? My point is that the twitter thread linked is, in my view, saying those things about both the people who are making the game and those who want to play it.

Really don't get what your last sentence is aiming at? I'm not saying Olivia should be unable to express herself online, I was entirely unaware that she was trans until this was pointed out now and that has no bearing on my initial comment or the subsequent discussion. My use of the term "misjudged" was in reference to the fact that the twitter thread was judging a book by the cover - insinuating more about someone or something just by the outside impression that they have given. I don't think that is a sensible way to operate and therefore I think it is acceptable to call such a viewpoint misjudged.

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by Tomous » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:59 pm

CD Projekt are giving a free copy of the game to the guy who shouted YOU’RE BREATHTAKING at Keanu :fp:

It was a funny moment but not sure they should encourage hecklers at these things....

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by jawafour » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:03 pm

Tomous wrote:CD Projekt are giving a free copy of the game to the guy who shouted YOU’RE BREATHTAKING at Keanu :fp:

It was a funny moment but not sure they should encourage hecklers at these things....

Oh, boy. I love to see enthusiasm but shouting out at everything is a bit silly... and, you're right, now it has been encouraged :lol: .

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by Tafdolphin » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:03 pm

Misjudged implies, and yes I'm going into implications, that it is somehow morally suspect, that it is expressing something that should not be expressed. There's nothing wrong with expressing what that tweet thread expressed.

Now; you reply telling me I'm misrepresenting you and that you never meant to imply any of that, and I'll reply quoting death of the author and that I can attribute whatever I like to comments given sufficient context then you come back and tell me death of the author is irrelevant etc etc.

It was a funny twitter thread that went over some people's heads and inspired some hot takes. It's a gooseberry fool box art that some people have taken as represention of certain priorities of the company making it and so used humorous exaggeration to emphasize their point. Others disagree with this. We're going in circles and I'm bored of this so here's a photo of Keanu Reeves;

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by Jenuall » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:13 pm

My interpretation (which I accept is now almost certainly wrong!) is that the tweet thread was judging the game by the cover - making inferences about something which cannot be known based solely on a surface impression it gives. I think that most people would agree that as a principle taking this approach to things is bad? I therefore said this was "misjudged" as in incorrect - not that there was something morally suspect about the statement or it's motivations. Just that it was incorrect. Now, in the light of further time and discussion I accept that this isn't what the thread was getting at, that more than just the bad cover was being used as a driver for the comments and that in such a context I really don't hold the same objections to it any more.

Also I'm happy to stick to discussing Keanu! I like his hair at the moment.

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by Tafdolphin » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:25 pm

I wonder if this, and Death Stranding, is going to become a 'Robin Williams in Aladdin' situation where suddenly every AAA game features at least one Hollywood star. I know we've had smaller B or C tier actors in games for years but the Keanu reveal really felt big. Different.

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by NickSCFC » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:29 pm

Who's the biggest movie star to appear in a game so far?

Samuel L Jackson in GTA San Andreas?

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by Tomous » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:34 pm

I’m not sure I like the trend. I wonder if it’ll be immersion breaking. I love Keanu (dude is just awesome) but everytime I’ll see him when playing Cyberpunk I’ll be taken out of the world because I’ll be thinking “it’s Keanu!”.

I guess the counter point is movies obviously get by okay but one of the reasons I like videogames is because of how immersive they are.

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by OrangeRKN » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:37 pm

I'm pretty sure the only intention behind the choice of cover art is to make as much money as possible

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by NickSCFC » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:42 pm

OrangeRKN wrote:I'm pretty sure the only intention behind the choice of cover art is to make as much money as possible


They should've just put Keanu on the cover, no one would complain.

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by Tafdolphin » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:44 pm

NickSCFC wrote:Who's the biggest movie star to appear in a game so far?

Samuel L Jackson in GTA San Andreas?


I genuinely think it's Keanu. Although Bruce Willis was in that Apocalypse game in the 90s.

OrangeRKN wrote:I'm pretty sure the only intention behind the choice of cover art is to make as much money as possible


And I'm pretty sure the only intention Robert Louis Stephenson had while writing Jekyll and Hyde was to write a decent horror book, and not a veiled analogy to the homosexual culture of Victorian London. And yet that interpretation is still valid.

c'est la vie.

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by Tomous » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:56 pm

[/quote]
NickSCFC wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:I'm pretty sure the only intention behind the choice of cover art is to make as much money as possible


They should've just put Keanu on the cover, no one would complain.


I was wondering why they didn’t, seems a pretty obvious choice from a marketing perspective.

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by Tafdolphin » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:58 pm

Yeah there was a discussion about that on twitter again. Probably due to licencing, I imagine it'd cost them a few more million to stick him on the box.

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PostRe: Cyberpunk 2077 (PS4, XBO, PC) - CD Projekt Red | starring Keanu Reeves | coming 16/04/2020 | E3 2019 CGI trailer
by OrangeRKN » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:03 pm

NickSCFC wrote:Who's the biggest movie star to appear in a game so far?


Ellen Page and Willem Dafoe in Beyond: Two Souls?

Death Stranding has some big names attached, as does Star Citizen Squadron 42, but obviously neither are out yet.

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