Dad, I’ve something to tell you...

Minty14 wrote:I know I certainly went through an "anti-PC" phase when I was younger, and I bet probably a majority of adolescent males did the same. The problem is, back then, that meant watching South Park and pushing the boundaries of "edgy" jokes.

Now, there's a deep rabbit hole of a prominent, extreme political movement to be fallen down from the same starting position.

The problem is that edgyness seems to have been weaponised.

You're right, engaging with edgy media genuinely did mean watching South Park (at least for a sheltered child growing up in a non-poverty-stricken part of the UK) which turned out to be clever satire, with an ultimately socially liberal agenda holding it together.

strawberry float knows what kind of genuinely awful content our younger equivalents are exposed to now. For those with the will to dig a little deeper than most, I dread to imagine.

I genuinely think that much of what we used to call "edgy" actually came from a non-malicious place and was actually a way of broaching and engaging with, difficult or taboo subjects.

Now it's just straight up racism/sexism/homophobia/racism.

Difference nowadays is watching something 'edgy' on YouTube can fill people's recommendations with alt right shite which helps send people down a darker path.

We had a good talk last night, he watched the videos posted here and obviously wasn’t turned straight away but did say “I should look at more sources” which is a start I guess?

Only two more kids to yet become teenagers, oh the joys ahead.

That's good to hear Suzz, if he's willing to talk then he's probably not too far down the rabbit-hole.

Did he expand on his views much? What's the appeal for him?

suzzopher wrote:We had a good talk last night, he watched the videos posted here and obviously wasn’t turned straight away but did say “I should look at more sources” which is a start I guess?

I’d say that was a pretty good start, it shows he’s not been so brainwashed that he refuses to look or listen to the other side.

“I should look at more sources” is always a pretty good rule of thumb.

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:You're right, engaging with edgy media genuinely did mean watching South Park (at least for a sheltered child growing up in a non-poverty-stricken part of the UK) which turned out to be clever satire, with an ultimately socially liberal agenda holding it together.

strawberry float knows what kind of genuinely awful content our younger equivalents are exposed to now. For those with the will to dig a little deeper than most, I dread to imagine.

Did it though?

South Park has always been politically apathetic, even nihilistic. Definitely libertarian. Because of the way the show is set up, it looks progressive, because it addresses issues, and it looks intelligent and critical because it attempts to examine both sides, but ultimately, it never commits to a stance. It will make fun of the radical right, but then gooseberry fool all over the left wing that try to combat it. Their preferred position is an apathetic centrism that says adopting a view on any issue makes you the bad actor, and you should just leave things alone, and let people get by.

twitter.com/gryphoenix1/status/1060561521338662912

The ManBearPig episode is a good example. Yes, they make fun of the coinage deniers who are still questioning what man bear pig is or if it's even real, as it tears them apart and eats them, but it also spends the whole episode making fun of the only character trying to do anything about it, Al Gore, by painting him as a delusional loser with no friends who believes in some insane imaginary creature. Yeah, climate change might be real, might be bad, but don't be one of those weirdos who cares about it.

Also, don't forget that episode where they compared trans issues to wanting to become a dolphin.

I used to love South Park until only just a few years ago, but I can't watch it now. Its outlook is, and mostly has been, miserable.

I'll caveat this by saying that I have no experience of parenting whatsoever, but I'd imagine that keeping a regular dialogue with him, not dismissing his ideas outright (at least not in front of him) and listening to his point of view, and sharing your perspective on things as well, will all be constructive in showing that you're taking him seriously and want to engage with him on the subject. It also keeps you close to what he's currently thinking and able to monitor whether his views change at all (for better or worse).

Worst thing you can do is push him away. When he eventually snaps out of it and realises the far right are full of gooseberry fool, he would still resent you for kind of disowning him. My suggestion would be to keep your relationship as normal as possible, but don't discuss politics. Generally that's what I do with most of my friends/fanily, I don't discuss politics or religion. It only ever leads to argument.

South Park is funny a lot of the time because it's nihilistic. No one should be basing their political opinions on a cartoon. It's good that it tackles subjects and so makes you think about them. That doesn't mean you should come to the same conclusion that the show does, because mainly it's just trying to be funny.

OrangeRKN wrote:South Park is funny a lot of the time because it's nihilistic. No one should be basing their political opinions on a cartoon. It's good that it tackles subjects and so makes you think about them. That doesn't mean you should come to the same conclusion that the show does, because mainly it's just trying to be funny.

It sounds like you are super cereal about this.

OrangeRKN wrote:South Park is funny a lot of the time because it's nihilistic. No one should be basing their political opinions on a cartoon. It's good that it tackles subjects and so makes you think about them. That doesn't mean you should come to the same conclusion that the show does, because mainly it's just trying to be funny.

Agreed, people getting their knickers in a twist over South Park just seems bizarre.

South Park's politics are strawberry floating trash, they just look harmless next to the alt-right to fascist pipeline that exists on YouTube.

Vermilion wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:South Park is funny a lot of the time because it's nihilistic. No one should be basing their political opinions on a cartoon. It's good that it tackles subjects and so makes you think about them. That doesn't mean you should come to the same conclusion that the show does, because mainly it's just trying to be funny.

Agreed, people getting their knickers in a twist over South Park just seems bizarre.

I mean, I was posting about how I think the show is bad because it continually makes fun of having opinions on things, and your response to me posting that opinion is to accuse me of getting my knickers in a twist?

Knoyleo wrote:

Vermilion wrote:Agreed, people getting their knickers in a twist over South Park just seems bizarre.

I mean, I was posting about how I think the show is bad because it continually makes fun of having opinions on things, and your response to me posting that opinion is to accuse me of getting my knickers in a twist?

You could be out protesting the necromantic resurrection of Hitler and right-"moderates" would still roll their eyes at the shrill over-emotional left. It's just a reflex response, a psychological defence against having to listen to what leftists are saying.

Karl_ wrote:

Knoyleo wrote:

Vermilion wrote:Agreed, people getting their knickers in a twist over South Park just seems bizarre.

I mean, I was posting about how I think the show is bad because it continually makes fun of having opinions on things, and your response to me posting that opinion is to accuse me of getting my knickers in a twist?

You could be out protesting the necromantic resurrection of Hitler and right-"moderates" would still roll their eyes at the shrill over-emotional left. It's just a reflex response, a psychological defence against having to listen to what leftists are saying.

I am just saying that we should give the resurrected Hitler a chance. He might have learned the error of his ways and we all know that necromancy can change a person. If a kid in a pet cemetery can become evil, why can't Hitler become good?

I say we hear him out on Radio 4. He can take the slot just after Steve Bannon.

Knoyleo wrote:

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:You're right, engaging with edgy media genuinely did mean watching South Park (at least for a sheltered child growing up in a non-poverty-stricken part of the UK) which turned out to be clever satire, with an ultimately socially liberal agenda holding it together.

strawberry float knows what kind of genuinely awful content our younger equivalents are exposed to now. For those with the will to dig a little deeper than most, I dread to imagine.

Did it though?

South Park has always been politically apathetic, even nihilistic. Definitely libertarian. Because of the way the show is set up, it looks progressive, because it addresses issues, and it looks intelligent and critical because it attempts to examine both sides, but ultimately, it never commits to a stance. It will make fun of the radical right, but then gooseberry fool all over the left wing that try to combat it. Their preferred position is an apathetic centrism that says adopting a view on any issue makes you the bad actor, and you should just leave things alone, and let people get by.

twitter.com/gryphoenix1/status/1060561521338662912

The ManBearPig episode is a good example. Yes, they make fun of the coinage deniers who are still questioning what man bear pig is or if it's even real, as it tears them apart and eats them, but it also spends the whole episode making fun of the only character trying to do anything about it, Al Gore, by painting him as a delusional loser with no friends who believes in some insane imaginary creature. Yeah, climate change might be real, might be bad, but don't be one of those weirdos who cares about it.

Also, don't forget that episode where they compared trans issues to wanting to become a dolphin.

I used to love South Park until only just a few years ago, but I can't watch it now. Its outlook is, and mostly has been, miserable.

Suppose I've never really thought about it that much. It's just been my perception, having watched the show only casually over the years. To me it feels as though the tone is of genuine derision for alt-right views, with abuse towards the left kept as general piss taking. I don't think there's much wrong with taking the piss out of things, that is I don't think it means the creators are actually against progressive values/action etc. A related indication of this could be the huge amount of piss taking levelled at Jews, when one of them (possibly both?) is Jewish. I expect the problem is where does it cross the line, which is undoubtedly at different stages for different people.

Happy to concede the point though. I'm sure their politics/views have shifted and transformed over the many years the show has run and so it's very unlikely to have held a consistent approach throughout. There will surely be a range of evidence to support both opinions that can be drawn from its history.

This conversation has just made me realise that I don't think I've watched South Park since the 90s

I've got a friend in Germany who lives in a small village in the South of Saxony just north Thuringia.

In the past whenever he noticed a friend was drifting towards the right and anti-semtism, he'd take them to Buchenwald which usually sorted things out.