Deathloop | PS5/PC/XS/Gamepass
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Jenuall
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OrangeRKN
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sawyerpip wrote:The safe in Updaam is the most rubbish reward ever, at least put a unique audio diary in there or something.
Worse than the Yervha?
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Jezo
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OrangeRKN
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Bertie
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OrangeRKN wrote:Only watched the first minute or so but don't seem to agree, the game is forcibly tutorialised and certainly not the most overwhelming game I've played by a long shot. It's hardly Nobunaga's Ambition. The list of mechanics introduced sounds pretty standard, doesn't it?
The game is excellent anyway!
I did the same.
If you want to just shoot stuff, play cod.
The game is brilliant because it’s got so much depth to it, and you work out all of these aspects as you grow into the game. It does an exceptional job of walking you through all of this, maybe more so than it needs to in those 1st few hours before you are let go.
Need to support games and content like deathloop to show that gamers want this depth. Rather than cod 20 where it’s reskinned and we’re still just shooting stuff!
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OrangeRKN
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I mean, it's not even mechanically much more complex than COD is it, when you break it down?
The argument is that it's one of the most overwhelming openings to a game ever because it contains:
- On screen objective notifications and control prompts
- A hacking tool
- Melee combat
- Writing
- Stealth executions
- Enemy tagging
- A time loop
- Three lives in each loop
- Items to loot
- Custom loadouts
- Menu screens
- Antagonists
Apparently it's a lot to take in... because the opening cutscene is short and doesn't tell you much? Which seems like the opposite of overwhelming, to be honest! As does the fact everything is recorded for you in the menus - that's there to help you not lose track of anything!
But almost all of those things are pretty standard mechanics right? Sure there's the time loop, which I don't think is hard to grasp, and having three lives is not a particulary weird concept to add to that (not for a videogame anyway!). Otherwise those are all just things that could be in COD (and mostly are). The controls are pretty much standard FPS controls, excepting your powers (which you don't unlock immediately) and the resultant grenades being on a different button. Sneaking up behind an unaware enemy and pressing a button for a stealth takedown is not an alien concept. The loot rarity colours are lifted straight out of every other game made in the last 10 years (and I think originated way back in Diablo?).
The game wants you to pay attention to the world and try and work out what is going on, but even that is very forgiving in letting you just turn on waypoints and follow them. It's a much smarter game than COD, but I don't think it's much more complex or with a high barrier to entry. It controls conventionally and tutorialises almost all of its mechanics. The depth is in its smart level design and progression, and in giving you freedom of approach and more stealth leaning gameplay, not mechanical complexity or unfamiliarity.
Anyway I feel the need to apologise because this sounds really mean against Jezo's cousin and I don't want to be, so I will now watch the rest of the video as recompense
...and yes, watching more he mentions these are not unusual controls, and that it gives tutorials if needed - and I wonder if I misunderstand what he means by being "overwhelmed"? I just can't match that up against the examples listed in the first minute, but what I think he is getting at is that this is a mystery game that drops you into its scenario without explanation, and the game is about filling out your knowledge of everything going on. Which yes, that's what this game is! I get calling that "overwhelming", I just think it has nothing to do with mechanics like stealth executions so that was a bad example to choose in making that point.
I'd maybe suggest "disorientating" sums it up better than "overwhelming". It's a deliberately disorienting opening, and yes that matches up with Colt's experience, and yes that does ask something of the player to commit to trying to understand the game's scenario.
Also thank god I watched this after playing Outer Wilds!
Getting on to the actual central point of the video, and yeah... I still disagree If a game presents you with a myriad of approaches, all fun and viable, and you choose to only ever repeat one, that's on you, not the game. It's like criticising Breath of the Wild because you beat every encounter by rolling bombs at the enemies from a distance. Sure, it's effective, but it's also boring and a failure on the player's part to try and engage with the game's systems. I get it a bit - go back through the thread and I say how I mainly stuck to the same loadout (mainly, not exclusively!) but I did so because I was having fun with it. If you're finding the lack of variety to be a problem then there is nothing stopping you from changing things up!
He predicts and addresses this counterpoint, saying it should be on the game to encourage (or even force?) the player to mix things up, and I just don't agree. It just boils down to deliberately choosing to play the game in an unfun way.
They should have tried a no kill no alert no loadout run like I did
The argument is that it's one of the most overwhelming openings to a game ever because it contains:
- On screen objective notifications and control prompts
- A hacking tool
- Melee combat
- Writing
- Stealth executions
- Enemy tagging
- A time loop
- Three lives in each loop
- Items to loot
- Custom loadouts
- Menu screens
- Antagonists
Apparently it's a lot to take in... because the opening cutscene is short and doesn't tell you much? Which seems like the opposite of overwhelming, to be honest! As does the fact everything is recorded for you in the menus - that's there to help you not lose track of anything!
But almost all of those things are pretty standard mechanics right? Sure there's the time loop, which I don't think is hard to grasp, and having three lives is not a particulary weird concept to add to that (not for a videogame anyway!). Otherwise those are all just things that could be in COD (and mostly are). The controls are pretty much standard FPS controls, excepting your powers (which you don't unlock immediately) and the resultant grenades being on a different button. Sneaking up behind an unaware enemy and pressing a button for a stealth takedown is not an alien concept. The loot rarity colours are lifted straight out of every other game made in the last 10 years (and I think originated way back in Diablo?).
The game wants you to pay attention to the world and try and work out what is going on, but even that is very forgiving in letting you just turn on waypoints and follow them. It's a much smarter game than COD, but I don't think it's much more complex or with a high barrier to entry. It controls conventionally and tutorialises almost all of its mechanics. The depth is in its smart level design and progression, and in giving you freedom of approach and more stealth leaning gameplay, not mechanical complexity or unfamiliarity.
Anyway I feel the need to apologise because this sounds really mean against Jezo's cousin and I don't want to be, so I will now watch the rest of the video as recompense
...and yes, watching more he mentions these are not unusual controls, and that it gives tutorials if needed - and I wonder if I misunderstand what he means by being "overwhelmed"? I just can't match that up against the examples listed in the first minute, but what I think he is getting at is that this is a mystery game that drops you into its scenario without explanation, and the game is about filling out your knowledge of everything going on. Which yes, that's what this game is! I get calling that "overwhelming", I just think it has nothing to do with mechanics like stealth executions so that was a bad example to choose in making that point.
I'd maybe suggest "disorientating" sums it up better than "overwhelming". It's a deliberately disorienting opening, and yes that matches up with Colt's experience, and yes that does ask something of the player to commit to trying to understand the game's scenario.
Also thank god I watched this after playing Outer Wilds!
Getting on to the actual central point of the video, and yeah... I still disagree
If a game presents you with a myriad of approaches, all fun and viable, and you choose to only ever repeat one, that's on you, not the game. It's like criticising Breath of the Wild because you beat every encounter by rolling bombs at the enemies from a distance. Sure, it's effective, but it's also boring and a failure on the player's part to try and engage with the game's systems. I get it a bit - go back through the thread and I say how I mainly stuck to the same loadout (mainly, not exclusively!) but I did so because I was having fun with it. If you're finding the lack of variety to be a problem then there is nothing stopping you from changing things up!He predicts and addresses this counterpoint, saying it should be on the game to encourage (or even force?) the player to mix things up, and I just don't agree. It just boils down to deliberately choosing to play the game in an unfun way.
They should have tried a no kill no alert no loadout run like I did
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Jenuall
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- AKA: Jenuall
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Might have to watch this video to see how much it winds me up now!
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Bertie
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- Joined in 2011
Jenuall wrote:Might have to watch this video to see how much it winds me up now!
Don’t do it!! We turned off after the first minute it’s so wrong…
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Victor Mildew
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Hexx wrote:Ad7 is older and balder than I thought.
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Monkey Man
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