The Politics Thread 3.0

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Hexx
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Hexx » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:54 pm

Preezy wrote:
Hexx wrote:In other news - could that into to Corbyn's speech. They're like a cult

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I think I meant "god that intro to"

Maybe.

I don't know. I was drunk/laughing/high/incompetent/infectedbtErkkal.

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That
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by That » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:03 pm

I am friends with a couple of people who vote Tory but are essentially don't-really-care-about-politics types. That's obviously fine with me because it never comes up.

I don't think I could actually be friends with a really committed, politically-engaged Tory who wanted to have it out with me. I would just get annoyed at their terrible views.

Similarly, I have friends who voted for Brexit out of kind of naivety or believing the bus ad or whatever, but it's easy to look past because it doesn't really come up. I couldn't be friends with someone that had drunk the kool-aid and was a properly passionate 'Brexiteer' though.

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:21 pm

Knoyleo wrote:
Moggy wrote:Can Labour people be friends with Tories?

Nobody should be friends with Tories.


Can Tories be friends with Tories?

I am an argumentative sod when it comes to politics, but it’s really weird to me that people would not be friends with somebody just because of their political beliefs. I might dislike Tory policies, but that doesn’t mean I would not hang out with a mate that voted for that party.

It’d be a bit different if it was a more extreme right party, the likes of the BNP or Britain First would be the end of a friendship, but the Tories are nowhere near that bad.

UKIP would be an odd one, to me they fit in the middle between the Tories and the absolute extreme right, although UKIP appear to be heading ever more extreme right. I guess I could be friends with a mild Ukipper, but we could never get drunk together as the arguments would end up in violence. ;)

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by bear » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:31 pm

Tineash wrote:Well then, best to get on with it. But it's going to be a strawberry floating ugly campaign.

The relative closeness of the gay marriage referendum could be a serious bonus if the right lessons are learned. The yes side won that vote but it was almost won despite them not because of them. There was a foolish decision made to focus campaigning on urban areas which were already likely to vote yes while areas their strategists predicted as No were largely ignored. It turned out that only one constituency voted no which showed that support for gay marriage was a lot more widespread than some experts thought at the start of the campaign. If the side advocating change on abortion laws learn that lesson and try to engage everybody then they have a good chance of being successful. If they focus on voters who are already likely to vote for change then I don't think it will pass.

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Knoyleo » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:16 pm

Moggy wrote:
Knoyleo wrote:
Moggy wrote:Can Labour people be friends with Tories?

Nobody should be friends with Tories.


Can Tories be friends with Tories?

Tories cannot make friends with anyone, as they lack the basic empathy required to do so.

pjbetman wrote:That's the stupidest thing ive ever read on here i think.
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Preezy » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:19 pm

Karl wrote:I don't think I could actually be friends with a really committed, politically-engaged Tory who wanted to have it out with me.

I don't think I could be friends with a really committed, politically-engaged anything who wanted to have it out with me.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by That » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:25 pm

Preezy wrote:
Karl wrote:I don't think I could actually be friends with a really committed, politically-engaged Tory who wanted to have it out with me.

I don't think I could be friends with a really committed, politically-engaged anything who wanted to have it out with me.

Yeah you're right. I have friends that are really 'into' politics and it only works because we broadly agree on everything, so it just turns into 'friendly politics news chat time.' I couldn't be doing with arguing all the time about anything, it would be the same with someone that was really really far-left.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:27 pm

Lucien wrote:
Moggy wrote:Can Labour people be friends with Tories?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41381286

strawberry float me, there are some mental people out there. :lol:


I can't believe someone decided that article should go up. :lol: :fp:

At the very least it should link to 6 year olds saying "OBVIOUSLY."


It sounds like there is an obvious answer, but the article and some posts in here suggest that it is actually a thing. :lol

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by KK » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:27 pm

Latest polling, for people that still believe in this sort of thing...

YouGov wrote:Image
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As Labour conference in Brighton draws to a close the latest YouGov/Times voting intention survey sees the party leading their Conservative rivals by four points. Voting intention for Labour stands at 43% (from 42% in our last voting intention survey two weeks ago) while the Conservatives find themselves on 39% (from 41%).

Elsewhere, Liberal Democrat voting intention stands at 7% (unchanged a fortnight ago) while 10% would vote for other parties (from 9%).

While Labour supporters will doubtless be cheered to see the party retaining their lead over the Tories, Jeremy Corbyn continues to trail behind Theresa May as the person Britons view as the best Prime Minister. Currently, 37% of people believe May would be a superior PM, while 29% say Corbyn would be better. A further 33% can't choose between them.

Both parties require new leaders. The Tories will get theirs, Labour not a chance now.

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Knoyleo » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:00 pm

Corbyn leads Labour to growing poll numbers over the Tories.

"Labour need a new leader."

OK. :simper:

pjbetman wrote:That's the stupidest thing ive ever read on here i think.
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by KK » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:13 pm

The public still favour Theresa May as PM by a wide margin, so yes. That polling says people would vote Labour but don't think Jeremy Corbyn will make a very good PM, which considering how bad TM has been is really damning of Corbyn. 33% effectively saying they're both gooseberry fool.

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Preezy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Preezy » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:19 pm

They are both gooseberry fool.

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:21 pm

Preezy wrote:They are both gooseberry fool.


That's being mean to gooseberry fool.

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DML
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by DML » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:58 pm

'For those who still believe in polling' might as well read 'for those who still believe in experts'.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Rocsteady » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:01 pm

They've not been very expert lately have they?

Anyone who can't be friends across the political divide's a strawberry floating idiot.

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Irene Demova
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Irene Demova » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:12 pm

DML wrote:'For those who still believe in polling' might as well read 'for those who still believe in experts'.

UK political polling is a nonsense pseudoscience though, they're caught in an endless cycle of adjustment and counter adjustment because they don't/can't trust their own raw data.

It's like going to an expert on herbal medicine, there's a chance that what they suggest could be helpful but then again you might end up dying of pancreatic cancer.

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DML
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by DML » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:13 pm

Irene Demova wrote:
DML wrote:'For those who still believe in polling' might as well read 'for those who still believe in experts'.

UK political polling is a nonsense pseudoscience though, they're caught in an endless cycle of adjustment and counter adjustment because they don't/can't trust their own raw data.

It's like going to an expert on herbal medicine, there's a chance that what they suggest could be helpful but then again you might end up dying of pancreatic cancer.


I think comparing it to herbal science is a BIT much. :lol:

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by That » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:27 pm

Irene Demova wrote:
DML wrote:'For those who still believe in polling' might as well read 'for those who still believe in experts'.

UK political polling is a nonsense pseudoscience though, they're caught in an endless cycle of adjustment and counter adjustment because they don't/can't trust their own raw data.

It's like going to an expert on herbal medicine, there's a chance that what they suggest could be helpful but then again you might end up dying of pancreatic cancer.

A consensus model of UK political polls I put together predicted (via regression) the outcome pretty well, as well as illustrating the general narrative of the campaign (albeit retrospectively).
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The polls individually aren't great but they aren't anywhere near 'herbal medicine.'

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DML
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by DML » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:00 pm

As much as Brexit is happening, the Single market access must be the most up in the air thing of all. I could confidently say Brexit is happening, but not so much about us being out of the single market. Five years is a LOOOONG time in politics. Five years ago we had a cheery looking Cameron at the Olympic Games. A lot can happen on that front, especially when we already see the government shifting on the issue. What happens in Labour do get a new leader? What happens if the Conservatives do? An awful lot is going to change before 2021.

Whatever ends up happening will be a balls-up though.

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BID0
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by BID0 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:21 pm

I've recently got back to watching The Thick Of It and it's even better than I remember it


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