Doctor Who- returns for series whatever it is 11/5/24 | The Grand Moff is back!

Lagamorph wrote:
shy guy 64 wrote:
Pell wrote:As somebody who isn’t that up on the lore, I didn’t mind much of it. The Doctor being the special one is a let down though: would much rather the Master be the Timeless Child, who’s aggrieved that his abilities were stolen from him through decades of torture and experiments, and that he wasn’t returned to his home but instead used to make the Doctor and all of the TimeLords special. That way he could claim the right to destroy what he created.

personally i wouldnt have like that either, the doctor and the master are supposed to be like reflections of each other but one of them being more than what they are kind of takes away from that

That's why I think both of them being from the original race with regeneration would have been better, especially if they were the only ones left of the original race and the rest had been wiped out by the Time Lords obsession with stealing regeneration for themselves.

that would have been slightly better

Enjoyable enough, but I agree with a lot of the criticism that it dicks around with the canon. With Doctor Who, as a non-expert, I just think of each New Who showrunner's tenure as a sort of limited comic book run, so if you think something is totally stupid it can ultimately be retconned away. I mean, where did this Master even come from, because I thought John Sim and Missy Gomez killed each other?

Was it just me, or did anyone else think when Yaz and Graham were having the heart to heart that they were going to lean in and start getting off? I obviously knew that it wasn't going to happen but it was just a really creepy scene, like they were doing a #metoo mandatory training role play. I was also expecting Ryan to shoot Graham when he was in disguise. That would've been a really awesome way to write them both out (not that I mind them, I actually quite like Graham).

Dowbocop wrote:Enjoyable enough, but I agree with a lot of the criticism that it dicks around with the canon. With Doctor Who, as a non-expert, I just think of each New Who showrunner's tenure as a sort of limited comic book run, so if you think something is totally stupid it can ultimately be retconned away. I mean, where did this Master even come from, because I thought John Sim and Missy Gomez killed each other?

its become a bit of a thing for the master to return after certain death with little to no explanation of how, i would suggest to always assume the master will be back at some point

So before I start it's no secret I'm not keen on the whole pre Hartnell stuff. But I've tried to put some of that aside and view as presented. But I also know this is part of an ongoing story and things might change. I've been my usual long winded self and some bits are for sure nitpicking. However if I'm gonna dissect it then I might as well pick away. Some of the small things might the sort of stuff you'd be willing to overlook if you were enjoying it.

Thanks to anyone that even attempts to read it.

Right so here I go!

Even viewed in isolation this ep has many failings. Viewed in context its even worse and whats its done for the overall lore of the show is a massive issue on a personal level for me. I could maybe overlook that if I felt it had a reason, a strong story to go with it. Like how the War Doctor turns up. But that itsn't this. Was this all so the Morbius Doctors could be explained even though they really didn't have to? Because they could have just been Morbius faces? No one really cares. It calls into question so many things across the shows history. Like why did the Doctor need a new set of regens if he can just rengenerate forever? Also going forward the Doctor should just be reckless and not care about dying because she will just change forever its fine.

So in a nutshell, Cribbers has taken the mysterious non-origin of the Doctor, which could have been anything from a humble chap looking to get away and see the sights to fleeing a war to a long plot to one day topple the Daleks and you replaced that with..... time traveling Jason Bourne but with added child abuse? Stripped away a sense of agency that character had and given us our first female Doctor and made her the most passive, cowardly, inept version of the character ever seen? I just cant quite get over it.

I've seen some say its great because it makes the Doctor mysterious again and I just think.... wat? Like what could be more mysterious then someone basically not having an origin? Having a historic vacuum that writers can dip into if they want but also just ignore. It sure has opened up so many possibilities in a show that can go anywhere and anywhen..... huh? Also out of the 5 last series finales this is the 3rd Master/Cybermen one and the second set on Gallifrey. The Cybermen here were are one of the weakest appearances thematically to.

But here is the real kicker. HOW DOES THE MASTER EVEN WORK OUT THE TIMELESS CHILD IS THE DOCTOR? Of all the scenes he shows what actual evidence is there? I mean if we to actually assume what he says is true.... then the entire thing is built on an enormous gaping issue. Perhaps this is because its all going to be retconned and its missdirection but given how the show under Cribbers has gone I wont get my hopes up. This is the man who thought the Ireland stuff worked the way it did. Given how "functional" his character work is its pretty depressing how poor his plotting is as well.

Thanks to anyone that went through that. Its taken me most of this week. I've got a few ideas on what I would have done with some of these concepts but I'll that for another time.

The Watching Artist wrote:But here is the real kicker. HOW DOES THE MASTER EVEN WORK OUT THE TIMELESS CHILD IS THE DOCTOR? Of all the scenes he shows what actual evidence is there? I mean if we to actually assume what he says is true.... then the entire thing is built on an enormous gaping issue. Perhaps this is because its all going to be retconned and its missdirection but given how the show under Cribbers has gone I wont get my hopes up. This is the man who thought the Ireland stuff worked the way it did. Given how "functional" his character work is its pretty depressing how poor his plotting is as well.

thatll probably help the theory that the whole thing was just the master trying to manipulate the doctor in some even more bizarre long term plan

anyway i think its worth noting that this year will mark the 50th anniversary of the 3rd doctor and iconic enemies autons/nestene and the silurions

Ratings low but ratings bad?

The conclusion to this year's series of Doctor Who, The Timeless Children, had an official rating of 4.69 million viewers. The figure is the lowest consolidated figure for an episode of Doctor Who since the series returned in 2005, a record previously held by the 2017 story, The Eaters of Light. Out of 861 episodes of Doctor Who broadcast since 1963, only 33 have achieved a lower rating.

To put the figure in perspective, it was still the 30th most-watched programme on British TV for the week, much higher that the position achieved by the majority of episodes of Doctor Who shown over the years. The episode had a 21.5% share of the total TV audience.

http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2020/03/timeless-child-official-ratings.html

Who the strawberry float is Cribbers

Hexx wrote:Who the strawberry float is Cribbers

Just sounds like you meant to say Chibbers and got it wrong

Hexx wrote:Just sounds like you meant to say Chibbers and got it wrong

The Watching Artist wrote:"What.... What!?" might as well just rename him Cribbers now.

The Watching Artist wrote:...Right so here I go!...

Just read through your analysis and opinion piece, Matt... that was comprehensive!

As you know, I'm a pretty casual Who fan. I've seen (nearly) all of the episodes over the course of the past fifteen years (i.e. I've watched all of "new Who" as it has been released and also seen "classic Who" courtesy of the Twitch Marathons). I never remember the storylines even though I enjoy watching the episodes.

I'm sad that, as a hardcore fan of Who, these past two series haven't delivered for you. I feel disappointed with them, too; from my casual fan perspective I often don't notice discrepancies in Who lore but I do believe that these series have had too many episodes with woeful characterisation and uninteresting storylines.

It's not the characters themselves that I'm frustrated by. I love there being a female doctor and I really like the variety in the companions. I think it had been their interaction in the stories that has left me feeling underwhelmed; it has never felt to be that exciting or memorable. On occasions there have been conversations that felt natural and a degree of emotion coming to the fore; but generally it has all been pretty forgettable.

There feels to be so much potential with the crew and the seemingly decent budget but, for me, it has fallen short. The glint of light is that I far preferred this latest series to the previous one; there were some episodes I kinda enjoyed. I do wonder where we go from here, though. I'll be watching but I think there is some change needed.

some parts of the last episode felt like hed left it to fill in the gaps ourselves

Watched the final three episodes again last night and I still don't like the idea of the Doctor being the Timeless Child and the origin of Time Lord regeneration. I do agree though that overall this series was better than the previous one.

Garth wrote:Watched the final three episodes again last night

Brave Garth. :shock:

Scores on the doors, my ratings for each episode this season:

+----------------------------------+-------+
| Episode                          | Score |
+----------------------------------+-------+
| Spyfall (Pt 1)                   |   5   |
| Spyfall (Pt 2)                   |   6   |
| Orphan 55                        |   4   |
| Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror   |   6   |
| Fugitive of the Judoon           |   5   |
| Praxeus                          |   4   |
| Can You Hear Me?                 |   6   |
| The Haunting of Villa Diodati    |   7   |
| Ascension of the Cybermen        |   5   |
| The Timeless Children            |   4   |
+----------------------------------+-------+

Not a pretty sight. I do think this set of episodes was better than Chibnall's first, but for me it's still by far the weakest period of the New Who era. Even the weakest seasons we had before this had a few standout episodes that made up for things but this has just been a slog to get through. :cry:

Jenuall wrote:Scores on the doors, my ratings for each episode this season:
+----------------------------------+-------+
| Episode                          | Score |
+----------------------------------+-------+
| Spyfall (Pt 1)                   |   5   |
| Spyfall (Pt 2)                   |   6   |
| Orphan 55                        |   4   |
| Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror   |   6   |
| Fugitive of the Judoon           |   5   |
| Praxeus                          |   4   |
| Can You Hear Me?                 |   6   |
| The Haunting of Villa Diodati    |   7   |
| Ascension of the Cybermen        |   5   |
| The Timeless Children            |   4   |
+----------------------------------+-------+
Not a pretty sight. I do think this set of episodes was better than Chibnall's first, but for me it's still by far the weakest period of the New Who era. Even the weakest seasons we had before this had a few standout episodes that made up for things but this has just been a slog to get through.

Be interested to see your series 11 scores

The Watching Artist wrote:
Jenuall wrote:Scores on the doors, my ratings for each episode this season:
+----------------------------------+-------+
| Episode                          | Score |
+----------------------------------+-------+
| Spyfall (Pt 1)                   |   5   |
| Spyfall (Pt 2)                   |   6   |
| Orphan 55                        |   4   |
| Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror   |   6   |
| Fugitive of the Judoon           |   5   |
| Praxeus                          |   4   |
| Can You Hear Me?                 |   6   |
| The Haunting of Villa Diodati    |   7   |
| Ascension of the Cybermen        |   5   |
| The Timeless Children            |   4   |
+----------------------------------+-------+
Not a pretty sight. I do think this set of episodes was better than Chibnall's first, but for me it's still by far the weakest period of the New Who era. Even the weakest seasons we had before this had a few standout episodes that made up for things but this has just been a slog to get through.
Be interested to see your series 11 scores

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... data acquired ...

+----------------------------------+-------+
| Episode                          | Score |
+----------------------------------+-------+
| The Woman Who Fell to Earth      |   7   |
| The Ghost Monument               |   5   |
| Rosa                             |   6   |
| Arachnids in the UK              |   4   |
| The Tsuranga Conundrum           |   4   |
| Demons of the Punjab             |   6   |
| Kerblam!                         |   4   |
| The Witchfinders                 |   5   |
| It Takes You Away                |   5   |
| The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos  |   4   |
+----------------------------------+-------+

So an average of 5.0 versus my 5.3 for the most recent series. Not exactly a massive improvement! :lol:

I was hopeful after The Woman Who Fell to Earth - Jodie was full of energy and desire to share her excitement with those around her which felt right, there was an interesting mix of companions who showed potential, the production was as good as ever etc. Ghost Monument was a bit of a bog standard fare but everyone expects a few of those in a series and Rosa picked things back up a bit with a nice return to historical and somewhat education aspects of the show ... but then it just seemed to give up and go nowhere.

They don't seem to know how to do a coherent series arc or character progression for anyone. Those are things that you can get away with to an extent if you are delivering great standalone stories each week, but we're not getting that either!

Might as well put my scores for the latest series.

Spyfall (Pt 1) 7
Spyfall (Pt 2) 5
Orphan 55 3
Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror 7
Fugitive of the Judoon 7
Praxeus 3
Can You Hear Me? 4
The Haunting of Villa Diodati 7
Ascension of the Cybermen 7
The Timeless Children 5

Overal a much better series than the last, but then again that isn't saying much. We had quite a few good and enjoyable episodes, but nothing brilliant like we had years ago. There's still a handful of pretty dreadful epsiodes that was too preachy with it's politics, and bar Bradley Walsh the fam was still pretty fogettable and uninspired bunch of companions.