Epic vs Apple

Anything to do with games at all.
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Garth
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PostEpic vs Apple
by Garth » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:42 pm

Epic filed legal papers shortly after Apple pulled Fortnite from the App Store:
Fortnite adds cheaper mobile payment option to circumvent Apple, Google fees

Epic Games has added a new "direct payment" option to Fortnite on iPhone and Android devices, aimed at cutting out the portion of proceeds Apple and Google take via their own official stores.

Epic has long railed against Apple and Google's 30 per cent cut, and previously launched Fortnite on Android via its own launcher to get around the issue.

The launch of a new, cheaper direct payment option in-game seems to be Epic's latest salvo in this ongoing battle. On both mobile platforms, £9.99 of in-game currency (1000 V-Bucks) will now cost £7.99 if you pick the option to pay Epic directly.

"Apple and Google collect an exorbitant 30 per cent fee on all payments," Epic said in a spicy FAQ published today. "If Apple and Google lower their fees on payments, Epic will pass along the savings to players.

"Thousands of apps on the App Store approved by Apple accept direct payments, including commonly used apps like Amazon, Grubhub, Nike SNKRS, Best Buy, DoorDash, Fandango, McDonalds, Uber, Lyft, and StubHub. We think all developers should be free to support direct payments in all apps.

"In operating Fortnite on open platforms and operating the Epic Games Store, Epic has processed over $1,600,000,000 of direct payments successfully, and uses industry trusted encryption and security measures to protect customer transactions."

UPDATE: Apple pulls Fortnite from App Store, Epic files legal papers

Following Epic Games' decision to include a direct in-game payment option in the iOS and Android versions of Fortnite in order to circumvent Apple and Google's official payment mechanisms, Apple has pulled the game from its App Store.

It's perhaps not a huge surprise to see Apple respond so quickly and decisively, given that Epic's move directly contravenes App Store guidelines, which state that developers wishing to unlock features or functionality within their apps must must use in-app purchase. "Subscriptions, in-game currencies, game levels, access to premium content, or unlocking a full version", are listed by way of example.

It appears Apple's move didn't come as much of a surprise to Epic either. Within moments of the news breaking, Epic announced it had filed legal papers against Apple. And with illuminating lines such as, "But for Apple's restrictions, would-be competing app distributors, such as Epic, could develop and offer iOS-compatible app stores, thereby providing consumers and developers choice beyond Apple's own App Store and injecting healthy competition into the market", they're well worth a read.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020 ... oogle-fees

Legal papers: https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/apple-com ... 589783.pdf

Looks like they've been planning this for a while, they've even made a trailer :lol: :fp:



twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1291616420397232128


twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1277780833353506818


twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1288139365399633924



twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/1294001569436798976


:slol:

Apple is also currently getting some backlash over preventing game streaming services from launching on the App Store:

twitter.com/verge/status/1291493175983517698



Facebook, Microsoft gripes with Apple's App Store on EU's antitrust radar

Facebook and Microsoft’s grievances over how their gaming apps appear on Apple’s App Store may feed into an EU investigation into the iPhone maker’s business as EU antitrust regulators said such concerns are on their radar.

The European Commission in June opened four probes into Apple, three of which are into its App Store and its restrictive rules, including requirements that app developers use its own in-app purchasing system.

U.S. social media giant Facebook and Microsoft are the latest companies to voice concerns about the rules, which have drawn criticism from app developers who say they create an uneven playing field to compete with the iPhone maker.

Asked about Facebook and Microsoft’s issues with Apple, Commission spokeswoman Arianna Podesta said in a statement: “The Commission is aware of these concerns regarding Apple’s App Store rules.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-a ... SKCN256235

Update:

twitter.com/Slasher/status/1294073105376333825


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Mafro
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by Mafro » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:46 pm

twitter.com/schillingc/status/1294005418075791360



:lol:

twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/1294001569436798976



Epic are valued at $17.3billion.

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Zilnad
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by Zilnad » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:58 pm

Epic are the bad guys, right? Boo Epic!

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KK
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by KK » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:06 pm

We hoping everyone kicks Apple’s arse, then?

I’d like xCloud on Apple devices.

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by Cuttooth » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:08 pm

Mafro wrote:

twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/1294001569436798976


strawberry floating Christ. :lol: :fp:

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BID0
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by BID0 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:17 pm

Not to start a console war but this is potentially bad for Sony. Microsoft is moving their business model over to a subscription service away from a traditional walled garden, which is where Sony dominates and makes most of their PlayStation money. Epic taking on Apple creates a landmark case for them to do the same against other ecosystems.

But it's good for the consumer :msgreen:

Corazon de Leon

PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by Corazon de Leon » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:21 pm

I don't see Epic winning this one, if I'm totally honest. They don't have a captive audience, there are other phone operating systems available, it seems difficult to imagine them being forced to relinquish the practices they've been able to use for well over a decade.

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Mafro
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by Mafro » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:22 pm

Cuttooth wrote:
Mafro wrote:

twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/1294001569436798976


strawberry floating Christ. :lol: :fp:

He's such a slimy corporate shill.

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BID0
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by BID0 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:06 pm

Corazon de Leon wrote:I don't see Epic winning this one, if I'm totally honest. They don't have a captive audience, there are other phone operating systems available, it seems difficult to imagine them being forced to relinquish the practices they've been able to use for well over a decade.

I seem to remember a similar thing happening with Netflix or maybe it was Spotify in the early days of the AppStore. Video streaming apps had the same issue back then.

With Microsoft's open letter about game streaming the other day it looks like game companies might be ganging up to make a legal challenge to how apps work on the AppStore in general.

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Jenuall
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by Jenuall » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:17 pm

Apple taking a cut of initial sale of an app makes sense, but getting 30% of every transaction within that app after purchase is a bit insane really

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Mafro
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by Mafro » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:34 pm

twitter.com/joeparlock/status/1294031953226870785


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Photek
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by Photek » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:55 pm

Hope Apple lose this!

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JT986M2
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by JT986M2 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:22 am

I previously assumed it was 30% of the initial sale of an app. 30% of everything is crazy! I’m an Apple supporter but that needs to change.

They are right that Epic are trying to weaponise the kids though. They had the whole propaganda thing ready to go.

I don’t think Epic have enough sway alone, but I’d like to see the App Store relaxed slightly. Even just for the cloud gaming stuff - no different than Netflix and Spotify where that content they host is also out of reach of Apple moderation.

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Mafro
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by Mafro » Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:42 am

Gone from the Google store too.

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Qikz
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by Qikz » Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:45 am

Zilnad wrote:Epic are the bad guys, right? Boo Epic!


Compared to Apple Epic are saints.

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Buffalo
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by Buffalo » Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:47 am

Let them tear each other apart. Both are horrendous.

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Green Gecko
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by Green Gecko » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:15 am

Hang on... That reduction isn't 30% off is it?

So if the kids buy 1000 wangbucks for £7.99, Epic is actually making more money than if they bought them via Apple.

Which is... conflicting.

"It should be common sense to just accept the message Nintendo are sending out through their actions."
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Skarjo
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by Skarjo » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:17 am

Nineteen Eighty Fortnite.

You can't say they didn't take the opportunity.

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That's not a growth
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by That's not a growth » Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:17 am

Jenuall wrote:Apple taking a cut of initial sale of an app makes sense, but getting 30% of every transaction within that app after purchase is a bit insane really


While I generally agree with this, my thought then goes "what would then stop them to make their apps free, but then an IAP to 'unlock' the full app" - and then Apple have built all this expensive infrastructure which is providing value but not getting paid for it.

Also it would set a bad president, if stores are forced to be run at a loss it would guarantee this monopoly continues since the barrier to entry would be too high if the only people who can run a store are those who can take the hit.

Getting 30% of all on going payments feels too much - especially for something like Spotify or Netflix that has regular payments. Perhaps it should be similar to credit card processing fees for IAP, which is just a few percent I think.

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Jordan UK
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PostRe: Epic Games takes legal action against Apple over App Store policies
by Jordan UK » Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:26 am

Cry me a river Epic.

And boo for appropriating that Ridley Scott advert, too.


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