Euro 2020: Italy win it; morons, encouraged by UK govt., racially abuse England's greatest team since '66.

[Corazon de Leon]

It's always amusing to me when people don't want to talk about a certain subject. And then they generate pages more of it when they post a moan about it.

Keep it on the matches, please. There'll be no discussion of Coca-Cola share prices or how Christian Eriksen's doing unless they're happening on the pitch somewhere.

[Corazon de Leon]

No, when I mentioned “the event” I was taking about Kaepernick kneeling. I.e athletes kneeling in solidarity in the immediate aftermath of him doing so.

Don’t have an issue with players wanting to do it, as long as they are doing so at their own behest.

Out of interest, and with regards to racial inequality out with the borders and politics of the US, what rights or legislation are afforded to people in the UK on the basis of race?

Edit: https://www.si.com/.amp/soccer/2021/03/ ... -pre-match

He’s obviously in the minority but I thought Zaha’s thoughts on kneeling were worth consideration.

In the context of football the only non-US team to show solidarity towards Kaepernick at the time of his protest were Hertha Berlin In 2017. Taking a knee simply didn't become a thing outside the US until last year's BLM protests.

You can say you have no issue with players carrying out a gesture they want to carry out, but I'm simply going to struggle to believe you when it's something you've been mocking. Racists will boo England and Scotland players tomorrow and I hope they get drowned out by applause again. Hopefully we can agree on that.

And on racial inequality, why is this question being framed solely within the scope of rights and legislations? You've already pointed out that the FA and EFL don't do enough even within whatever rights and legislations they presumably have to operate under.

Can we keep this thread on the euros? Thanks

I actually made sure to post my reply way after the match last night to not get in the way of the live chat and reaction! Please don't let me get in the way of Ukraine vs North Macedonia later.

I am wrong on dates of other teams showing solidarity with Kaepernick and you're right, it was on the back of the abhorrent murdering by police on George Floyd. Sorry about that.

Perhaps I was unfair to "mock" the kneeling. Again, I feel Kaepernick's actions reverberated around the world and the majority of the time it's done here feels diluted. Is it just a second or 2 they do it for now? It just feels forced. I'm not saying I am right and you are wrong, that is just my opinion of it.

I don't necessarily agree with players wearing poppies. That is a personal opinion. I would never boo someone exercising their right to wear a poppy, and nor would I boo someone kneeling in the face of racial injustice. And yes, thinking about it now, if I was at a game and there was booing for the kneeling, I would applaud the players for doing what they believe in. And whilst I believe booing the kneeling is wrong, I don't believe it automatically makes someone a "racist".

You make a good point about my racial ineuqality question only being framed in terms of legislation. At a guess, if the FA and EFL were to tally up the representation from every race or ethnicity, I'd say there was definitely a noticeable lack of British Indian players in the game. That should be the responsibility of the governing bodies to reach out to those communities to see what can be done to get more kids of that background into the game. Perhaps there are other factors which mean they just aren't interested? I'm not an expert on (British-) Indian culture. Generally though, most organisitions outwith the sporting sector are massive on women's rights, LGBT+ rights and BAME (apologies if that is not the preferred term now) rights. I work within the legal sector and am yet to see legislation which discriminates against any of the protected groups above. Though obviously there are absolutely cases being brought forward of discrimination based on equal pay for women and men etc just now.

I'm self-aware enough that this post is going to be contradictory in places, perhaps an indicator of my fluid thinking on societal and political issues. I am always open to changing my mind on issues over time.

Just quoting this from the bottom of the last page because me being a sassy bitch has stranded it there. Sorry!

[Moggy]

It's always amusing to me when people don't want to talk about a certain subject. And then they generate pages more of it when they post a moan about it.

Keep it on the matches, please. There'll be no discussion of Coca-Cola share prices or how Christian Eriksen's doing unless they're happening on the pitch somewhere.

It's very telling you ignore Pogba moving the Heineken. Do Muslims offend you Cora? Why do you want to airbrush Islam out of history in favour of big larger (as in the drink larger) brands?

[Rubix]

It's always amusing to me when people don't want to talk about a certain subject. And then they generate pages more of it when they post a moan about it.

Keep it on the matches, please. There'll be no discussion of Coca-Cola share prices or how Christian Eriksen's doing unless they're happening on the pitch somewhere.

It's very telling you ignore Pogba moving the Heineken. Do Muslims offend you Cora? Why do you want to airbrush Islam out of history in favour of big larger (as in the drink larger) brands?

Did you see the way Pogba do it? it was really cringeworthy like he was trying to copy Ronaldo but not act like he was copying him

[BTB]

The real question is has the market value of water gone up since Ronaldo showed his support for it?

How much are Big Agua paying Ronaldo exactly??

[Cuttooth]

No, when I mentioned “the event” I was taking about Kaepernick kneeling. I.e athletes kneeling in solidarity in the immediate aftermath of him doing so.

Don’t have an issue with players wanting to do it, as long as they are doing so at their own behest.

Out of interest, and with regards to racial inequality out with the borders and politics of the US, what rights or legislation are afforded to people in the UK on the basis of race?

Edit: https://www.si.com/.amp/soccer/2021/03/ ... -pre-match

He’s obviously in the minority but I thought Zaha’s thoughts on kneeling were worth consideration.

In the context of football the only non-US team to show solidarity towards Kaepernick at the time of his protest were Hertha Berlin In 2017. Taking a knee simply didn't become a thing outside the US until last year's BLM protests.

You can say you have no issue with players carrying out a gesture they want to carry out, but I'm simply going to struggle to believe you when it's something you've been mocking. Racists will boo England and Scotland players tomorrow and I hope they get drowned out by applause again. Hopefully we can agree on that.

And on racial inequality, why is this question being framed solely within the scope of rights and legislations? You've already pointed out that the FA and EFL don't do enough even within whatever rights and legislations they presumably have to operate under.

Can we keep this thread on the euros? Thanks

I actually made sure to post my reply way after the match last night to not get in the way of the live chat and reaction! Please don't let me get in the way of Ukraine vs North Macedonia later.

I am wrong on dates of other teams showing solidarity with Kaepernick and you're right, it was on the back of the abhorrent murdering by police on George Floyd. Sorry about that.

Perhaps I was unfair to "mock" the kneeling. Again, I feel Kaepernick's actions reverberated around the world and the majority of the time it's done here feels diluted. Is it just a second or 2 they do it for now? It just feels forced. I'm not saying I am right and you are wrong, that is just my opinion of it.

I don't necessarily agree with players wearing poppies. That is a personal opinion. I would never boo someone exercising their right to wear a poppy, and nor would I boo someone kneeling in the face of racial injustice. And yes, thinking about it now, if I was at a game and there was booing for the kneeling, I would applaud the players for doing what they believe in. And whilst I believe booing the kneeling is wrong, I don't believe it automatically makes someone a "racist".

You make a good point about my racial ineuqality question only being framed in terms of legislation. At a guess, if the FA and EFL were to tally up the representation from every race or ethnicity, I'd say there was definitely a noticeable lack of British Indian players in the game. That should be the responsibility of the governing bodies to reach out to those communities to see what can be done to get more kids of that background into the game. Perhaps there are other factors which mean they just aren't interested? I'm not an expert on (British-) Indian culture. Generally though, most organisitions outwith the sporting sector are massive on women's rights, LGBT+ rights and BAME (apologies if that is not the preferred term now) rights. I work within the legal sector and am yet to see legislation which discriminates against any of the protected groups above. Though obviously there are absolutely cases being brought forward of discrimination based on equal pay for women and men etc just now.

I'm self-aware enough that this post is going to be contradictory in places, perhaps an indicator of my fluid thinking on societal and political issues. I am always open to changing my mind on issues over time.

I think these are some fair comments.

A lot of my frustration around this comes from how so many people will bog themselves down with discussion on a simple, peaceful gesture and ignore the more important wider discussion of why people feel compelled to make such a gesture. Often that’s done as a deliberate effort by those who wish to ensure systemic racism isn’t discussed (not suggesting this is your intention) and to spread fear and misconceptions about the intentions behind a message. What’s frustrating too is this opposition ends up forcing these kinds of movements into watering down their messages, usually by insisting the message and movement is "not political". Anti-racism is overtly political and it’s sad that we accept the vilification of political activism so easily as a society.

Gestures shouldn’t be used by organisations and politicians to mask their own failings, but they unfortunately are. Their worth is naturally limited, and especially so because of that misuse, but that isn’t why people are booing. They’re booing because they want this all to go away, because they don’t want to hear about how Black Lives Matter, because they don’t want anything to change for them. It’s wrong for anyone to say that players should just accept this racist abuse and keep going but in the face of that and in a still very limited way by posting about it on GR, I would prefer to give my support to them.

As for British Asians not playing football. This has been a known issue for several years and is an issue across many sports. While quite a lot is automatically attributed to cultural differences, the truth is talent scouts have historically never largely been interested in pursuing Asian youth prospects. It doesn’t help when the former head of the FA puts it partly down to Asians being more interested in working in IT than those from a Black background. There are maybe some signs that Asian representation is changing for the better but ultimately it comes down to taking the interest in football young British Asians have and giving them more opportunities to develop into professional footballers.

[Drumstick]

The same problem exists in Cricket, though there is a drive from the ECB that Moeen Ali is involved with to try and promote the game in Asian communities.

[Cuttooth]

The same problem exists in Cricket, though there is a drive from the ECB that Moeen Ali is involved with to try and promote the game in Asian communities.

Aren't around a third of club cricketers in the UK from an Asian background though? That seems less of an issue with it needing to be promoted in certain communities.

[Photek]

A lot of these Euro's are passing me by, I mean, I played Yakuza instead of watching Italy v Switzerland last night.

Tomorrow night will be great though, Wife has bought me a beer gift box thing with several beers in for fathers day, on top of a corona filled mini fridge plus my work just gave everyone a BBQ box full of meat and sauces and rubs etc as a thanks. BBQ and lovely beers plus England v Scotland 'MON SCOTLAND!

[Drumstick]

The same problem exists in Cricket, though there is a drive from the ECB that Moeen Ali is involved with to try and promote the game in Asian communities.

Aren't around a third of club cricketers in the UK from an Asian background though? That seems less of an issue with it needing to be promoted in certain communities.

Sorry, I was referring to County Cricket, where Asians make up only about 5% of the player base.

[Photek]

Can we keep this thread on the euros? Thanks

[Cuttooth]

That was a slice and a half.

[Moggy]

Can we keep this thread on the euros? Thanks

Which one is your favourite?

[Prototype]

No, when I mentioned “the event” I was taking about Kaepernick kneeling. I.e athletes kneeling in solidarity in the immediate aftermath of him doing so.

Don’t have an issue with players wanting to do it, as long as they are doing so at their own behest.

Out of interest, and with regards to racial inequality out with the borders and politics of the US, what rights or legislation are afforded to people in the UK on the basis of race?

Edit: https://www.si.com/.amp/soccer/2021/03/ ... -pre-match

He’s obviously in the minority but I thought Zaha’s thoughts on kneeling were worth consideration.

In the context of football the only non-US team to show solidarity towards Kaepernick at the time of his protest were Hertha Berlin In 2017. Taking a knee simply didn't become a thing outside the US until last year's BLM protests.

You can say you have no issue with players carrying out a gesture they want to carry out, but I'm simply going to struggle to believe you when it's something you've been mocking. Racists will boo England and Scotland players tomorrow and I hope they get drowned out by applause again. Hopefully we can agree on that.

And on racial inequality, why is this question being framed solely within the scope of rights and legislations? You've already pointed out that the FA and EFL don't do enough even within whatever rights and legislations they presumably have to operate under.

Can we keep this thread on the euros? Thanks

I actually made sure to post my reply way after the match last night to not get in the way of the live chat and reaction! Please don't let me get in the way of Ukraine vs North Macedonia later.

I am wrong on dates of other teams showing solidarity with Kaepernick and you're right, it was on the back of the abhorrent murdering by police on George Floyd. Sorry about that.

Perhaps I was unfair to "mock" the kneeling. Again, I feel Kaepernick's actions reverberated around the world and the majority of the time it's done here feels diluted. Is it just a second or 2 they do it for now? It just feels forced. I'm not saying I am right and you are wrong, that is just my opinion of it.

I don't necessarily agree with players wearing poppies. That is a personal opinion. I would never boo someone exercising their right to wear a poppy, and nor would I boo someone kneeling in the face of racial injustice. And yes, thinking about it now, if I was at a game and there was booing for the kneeling, I would applaud the players for doing what they believe in. And whilst I believe booing the kneeling is wrong, I don't believe it automatically makes someone a "racist".

You make a good point about my racial ineuqality question only being framed in terms of legislation. At a guess, if the FA and EFL were to tally up the representation from every race or ethnicity, I'd say there was definitely a noticeable lack of British Indian players in the game. That should be the responsibility of the governing bodies to reach out to those communities to see what can be done to get more kids of that background into the game. Perhaps there are other factors which mean they just aren't interested? I'm not an expert on (British-) Indian culture. Generally though, most organisitions outwith the sporting sector are massive on women's rights, LGBT+ rights and BAME (apologies if that is not the preferred term now) rights. I work within the legal sector and am yet to see legislation which discriminates against any of the protected groups above. Though obviously there are absolutely cases being brought forward of discrimination based on equal pay for women and men etc just now.

I'm self-aware enough that this post is going to be contradictory in places, perhaps an indicator of my fluid thinking on societal and political issues. I am always open to changing my mind on issues over time.

I think these are some fair comments.

A lot of my frustration around this comes from how so many people will bog themselves down with discussion on a simple, peaceful gesture and ignore the more important wider discussion of why people feel compelled to make such a gesture. Often that’s done as a deliberate effort by those who wish to ensure systemic racism isn’t discussed (not suggesting this is your intention) and to spread fear and misconceptions about the intentions behind a message. What’s frustrating too is this opposition ends up forcing these kinds of movements into watering down their messages, usually by insisting the message and movement is "not political". Anti-racism is overtly political and it’s sad that we accept the vilification of political activism so easily as a society.

Gestures shouldn’t be used by organisations and politicians to mask their own failings, but they unfortunately are. Their worth is naturally limited, and especially so because of that misuse, but that isn’t why people are booing. They’re booing because they want this all to go away, because they don’t want to hear about how Black Lives Matter, because they don’t want anything to change for them. It’s wrong for anyone to say that players should just accept this racist abuse and keep going but in the face of that and in a still very limited way by posting about it on GR, I would prefer to give my support to them.

As for British Asians not playing football. This has been a known issue for several years and is an issue across many sports. While quite a lot is automatically attributed to cultural differences, the truth is talent scouts have historically never largely been interested in pursuing Asian youth prospects. It doesn’t help when the former head of the FA puts it partly down to Asians being more interested in working in IT than those from a Black background. There are maybe some signs that Asian representation is changing for the better but ultimately it comes down to taking the interest in football young British Asians have and giving them more opportunities to develop into professional footballers.

Can’t say I disagree with any of this. I expect the players to kneel tomorrow and power to them. Usually I’d roll my eyes at it but might give it a bit more thought tomorrow.

Might film myself booing it and uploading it to Twitter.

[Photek]

Anyone else think the keeper was awful for that Ukraine goal?

[Photek]

Can we keep this thread on the euros? Thanks

Which one is your favourite?

[Preezy]

Anyone else think the keeper was awful for that Ukraine goal?

He just needed a bigger toe and he'd have saved it. I thought he was unfortunate.

edit: seems I missed the second goal, if that's what you were referring to - yeah he should have done much better.

[Photek]

Anyone else think the keeper was awful for that Ukraine goal?

He just needed a bigger toe and he'd have saved it. I thought he was unfortunate.

edit: seems I missed the second goal, if that's what you were referring to - yeah he should have done much better.

Nope its the first one.... didn't know it was 2 went back to listening to music...

[Cuttooth]

This is going to be an absolute hiding isn't it.

[Tomous]

This is going to be an absolute hiding isn't it.

They're really missing South Macedonia imo