Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience

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Hime
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Hime » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:59 am

Ironhide wrote:
Hime wrote:
Ironhide wrote:
Hime wrote:What do people think could be done that would actually be considered worthwhile? It's very different to a human rights protest that has a very clearly defined goal.


Stop building coal and gas power plants, invest heavily in renewable energy, heavily subsidise home solar panels and electric vehicles and actually recycle waste in the UK instead of shipping it to India and China to name just a few ideas.

World governments are prepared to spend trillions on military budgets yet seem unwilling to spend anything but the bare minimum on tackling climate change.

Not meaning to be a dick but the UK isn't building coal power stations and gas power stations are essential at the moment. Obviously there could always be more done but renewable energy is an area that is already being heavily invested in so I would highly doubt that would satisfy XR. The solar panels and electric vehicles are interesting as if you break down the construction and long term disposal of them there are massive environmental issues.

Again, not meaning to be a dick but I'm not sure those are things that would satisfy XR as they're so easy to dismiss and very long term solutions that would take a lot of time to progress.


I don't think there is a quick solution to climate change, I'm also aware that solar panels and electric vehicles aren't the 'silver bullet' they're made out to be but people need electricity and most people need some kind of vehicle and both would reduce CO2 emissions in the short term if they were more affordable.

The long term solution would probably require finding a means of generating energy via nuclear fusion and also banning all privately owned vehicles in favour of cheap carbon neutral public transport , people would also need to stop eating meat and fish as both industries cause environmental damage.

I can't see any of that happening by 2030.

Banning private vehicles would be impossible, there are so many scenarios which public transport isn't feasible. Nuclear Fusion is part of the solution but it only helps base power, you would still need the power stations that can be turned on and off quickly, the industry is changing massively though so I would say that this is demonstrably already moving in the right direction. The food argument definitely needs more clarification as the figures have been very selective, I find it hard to believe that eating meat that comes from a couple of miles down the road is killing the planet but it's ok to eat blueberries, nuts, avocados, etc that have been flown in from around the world.

Again, not meaning to just gooseberry fool on everything you're saying, just pointing out that rather than just saying "We want change!" XR should approach the situation more professionally.

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Knoyleo » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:14 am

BID0 wrote:
Knoyleo wrote:
BID0 wrote:
Knoyleo wrote:Thanks Bid0, that's something I'd not heard before, and sounds like a good set up. I'll watch that Owen Jones video later on as well. It's reassuring to hear there are more organisational and protection considerations in play than I'd been led to believe.

Meanwhile on twitter :



Police aren't friends of protest action, what the strawberry float are they doing? :dread:

I'm so conflicted.

Police are joining the cause :wub:


The police exist to enforce private property rights, and private property rights lead directly to the exploitation and destruction of natural resources. The police will protect corporations who destroy and pollute the planet, over the people who try to stop them, every time. The men in that video are not repentant about their past careers, and I doubt they'd ever admit that their former job is a direct protector of the entities who cause the climate crisis. Will those three be working to provide counter intelligence and root out police moles? Would they actively sabotage police work that was working against XR?

It's no wonder other groups are wary of Extinction Rebellion when this is their attitude to the police, and it does make you question just how radical the reforms they're after are.

Yes I imagine they would help find any moles. For anyone else reading this thinking what are they talking about, very recently there was a case about Police officers having infiltrated protest groups (I can’t remember the cause) and some had even got in to relationships and had children with members of the movement and left the families after they stopped being investigated. You should be able to find it by searching “Lush police”. So this is t some weird conspiracy theory thing, it has happened and is probably happening now

That's a very favorable way of saying that the police used rape as a tactic to infiltrate environment action groups.

Also, look at the list of groups it came to light that the police have infiltrated :

Anarchist groups, Animal Liberation Front, Anti-Apartheid Movement, Anti-Fascist Action, Big Flame, Black Power movement, Brixton Hunt Saboteurs, Colin Roach Centre, Dambusters Mobilising Committee, Dissent!, Earth First!, Essex Hunt Saboteurs, Friends of Freedom Press Ltd, Globalise Resistance, Independent Labour Party, Independent Working Class Association, International Marxist Group, International Socialists, Irish National Liberation Solidarity Front, London Animal Action, London Animal Rights Coalition, London Boots Action Group, London Greenpeace, Militant, No Platform, Antifa, Operation Omega, Reclaim the Streets, Red Action, Republican Forum, Revolutionary Socialist Students Federation, Socialist Party, Socialist Workers Party, South London Animal Movement (SLAM), Tri-Continental, Troops Out Movement, Vietnam Solidarity Campaign, West London Hunt Saboteurs, Workers Revolutionary Party, Young Haganah, Young Liberals, Youth against Racism in Europe.


Some are no surprise, but others make you wonder exactly what police priorities are if they're infiltrating the Young Liberals and Youth Against Racism.

There's a lot of distrust of the police amongst campaign groups, and rightly so. Extinction Rebellion should be trying to keep as much distance from them as possible, including former police, and definitely not be chanting songs about loving the police.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Moggy » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:15 am

Gemini73 wrote:Think I made a big mistake returning. strawberry float you guys and your pissy little forum clique. And lets face it, that's all you really are.

Adiós


That’s quite the reaction to people that are not angry over old clothes. :lol:

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Mommy
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Mommy » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:32 am

Green Gecko wrote:Removed admin whining by myself, please continue.

Mommy needn't PM me just please don't be a dick in this thread, that goes for everyone. Aint got time for it.


Right.

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Tomous
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Tomous » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:49 am

Moggy wrote:
Gemini73 wrote:Think I made a big mistake returning. strawberry float you guys and your pissy little forum clique. And lets face it, that's all you really are.

Adiós


That’s quite the reaction to people that are not angry over old clothes. :lol:


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BID0
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by BID0 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:02 am

Hime wrote:
Ironhide wrote:
Hime wrote:
Ironhide wrote:
Hime wrote:What do people think could be done that would actually be considered worthwhile? It's very different to a human rights protest that has a very clearly defined goal.


Stop building coal and gas power plants, invest heavily in renewable energy, heavily subsidise home solar panels and electric vehicles and actually recycle waste in the UK instead of shipping it to India and China to name just a few ideas.

World governments are prepared to spend trillions on military budgets yet seem unwilling to spend anything but the bare minimum on tackling climate change.

Not meaning to be a dick but the UK isn't building coal power stations and gas power stations are essential at the moment. Obviously there could always be more done but renewable energy is an area that is already being heavily invested in so I would highly doubt that would satisfy XR. The solar panels and electric vehicles are interesting as if you break down the construction and long term disposal of them there are massive environmental issues.

Again, not meaning to be a dick but I'm not sure those are things that would satisfy XR as they're so easy to dismiss and very long term solutions that would take a lot of time to progress.


I don't think there is a quick solution to climate change, I'm also aware that solar panels and electric vehicles aren't the 'silver bullet' they're made out to be but people need electricity and most people need some kind of vehicle and both would reduce CO2 emissions in the short term if they were more affordable.

The long term solution would probably require finding a means of generating energy via nuclear fusion and also banning all privately owned vehicles in favour of cheap carbon neutral public transport , people would also need to stop eating meat and fish as both industries cause environmental damage.

I can't see any of that happening by 2030.

Banning private vehicles would be impossible, there are so many scenarios which public transport isn't feasible. Nuclear Fusion is part of the solution but it only helps base power, you would still need the power stations that can be turned on and off quickly, the industry is changing massively though so I would say that this is demonstrably already moving in the right direction. The food argument definitely needs more clarification as the figures have been very selective, I find it hard to believe that eating meat that comes from a couple of miles down the road is killing the planet but it's ok to eat blueberries, nuts, avocados, etc that have been flown in from around the world.

Again, not meaning to just gooseberry fool on everything you're saying, just pointing out that rather than just saying "We want change!" XR should approach the situation more professionally.

Other countries are banning combustible engines in the next few years.

There's quite a lot of research in it now. The WWF put out a report of a few popular UK dishes and show the huge environmental cost of eating meat and diary. I posted it in one of the recent vegan topics, I think in reply to one of your posts at the time actually. I can't find the pdf right now but here is an article using it as a source https://www.livekindly.co/new-wwf-repor ... footprint/

The third most damaging industry after fossil fuels and meat/diary is the fashion industry. Particularly the fast fashion industry. There are ways to make clothing carbon neutral and there are many small business doing this today, I run one myself part time to promote the real cost of the fashion industry. The problem is the big labels. Check out documentaries like Stacey Dooley's "Fashions Dirty Secrets" which should be on iplayer or "The True Cost" which should still be on Netflix.

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Oblomov Boblomov
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Oblomov Boblomov » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:13 am

New logo request.

GRcade
Pissy little forum clique & stuff

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Knoyleo » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:16 am

Gemini73 wrote:I'm glad you all find upsetting school children so amusing.

This is a tremendous amount of caring about offense, from someone with a Mayhem avatar. :lol:

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Balladeer
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Balladeer » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:27 am

I’m new(ish), can I be part of the pissy little clique? What hazing rituals do I have to go through?

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Moggy
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Moggy » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:29 am

Balladeer wrote:I’m new(ish), can I be part of the pissy little clique? What hazing rituals do I have to go through?


Piss. Lots and lots of piss.

But the good news is it is carbon neutral organic piss, fresh from Denster's bladder.

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BID0
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by BID0 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:48 am

CRusticade - hemp + stuff

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Hime
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Hime » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:56 am

BID0 wrote:
Hime wrote:
Ironhide wrote:
Hime wrote:
Ironhide wrote:
Hime wrote:What do people think could be done that would actually be considered worthwhile? It's very different to a human rights protest that has a very clearly defined goal.


Stop building coal and gas power plants, invest heavily in renewable energy, heavily subsidise home solar panels and electric vehicles and actually recycle waste in the UK instead of shipping it to India and China to name just a few ideas.

World governments are prepared to spend trillions on military budgets yet seem unwilling to spend anything but the bare minimum on tackling climate change.

Not meaning to be a dick but the UK isn't building coal power stations and gas power stations are essential at the moment. Obviously there could always be more done but renewable energy is an area that is already being heavily invested in so I would highly doubt that would satisfy XR. The solar panels and electric vehicles are interesting as if you break down the construction and long term disposal of them there are massive environmental issues.

Again, not meaning to be a dick but I'm not sure those are things that would satisfy XR as they're so easy to dismiss and very long term solutions that would take a lot of time to progress.


I don't think there is a quick solution to climate change, I'm also aware that solar panels and electric vehicles aren't the 'silver bullet' they're made out to be but people need electricity and most people need some kind of vehicle and both would reduce CO2 emissions in the short term if they were more affordable.

The long term solution would probably require finding a means of generating energy via nuclear fusion and also banning all privately owned vehicles in favour of cheap carbon neutral public transport , people would also need to stop eating meat and fish as both industries cause environmental damage.

I can't see any of that happening by 2030.

Banning private vehicles would be impossible, there are so many scenarios which public transport isn't feasible. Nuclear Fusion is part of the solution but it only helps base power, you would still need the power stations that can be turned on and off quickly, the industry is changing massively though so I would say that this is demonstrably already moving in the right direction. The food argument definitely needs more clarification as the figures have been very selective, I find it hard to believe that eating meat that comes from a couple of miles down the road is killing the planet but it's ok to eat blueberries, nuts, avocados, etc that have been flown in from around the world.

Again, not meaning to just gooseberry fool on everything you're saying, just pointing out that rather than just saying "We want change!" XR should approach the situation more professionally.

Other countries are banning combustible engines in the next few years.

There's quite a lot of research in it now. The WWF put out a report of a few popular UK dishes and show the huge environmental cost of eating meat and diary. I posted it in one of the recent vegan topics, I think in reply to one of your posts at the time actually. I can't find the pdf right now but here is an article using it as a source https://www.livekindly.co/new-wwf-repor ... footprint/

The third most damaging industry after fossil fuels and meat/diary is the fashion industry. Particularly the fast fashion industry. There are ways to make clothing carbon neutral and there are many small business doing this today, I run one myself part time to promote the real cost of the fashion industry. The problem is the big labels. Check out documentaries like Stacey Dooley's "Fashions Dirty Secrets" which should be on iplayer or "The True Cost" which should still be on Netflix.

Isn't it a ban on new vehicles? What are the solutions for tradesman and the like that carry tools to varies places?

Yeah I've seen and used the calculator but it doesn't seem to include the impact of importing certain foods in the calculations. How can me personally taking a flight can be considered a massive part of my carbon footprint but a plate full of foods imported from around the world be OK? Maybe there is a reasonable explanation. Also, on the WWF calculator chicken is actually below a lot of fruit and veg so it's not true to say that meat as a whole is bad.

Anyway, the point was that XR should present a list of achievable goals to give themselves a bit more credibility.

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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Tafdolphin » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:02 am

Hime wrote:Anyway, the point was that XR should present a list of achievable goals to give themselves a bit more credibility.


See I don't agree with this.

They're a protest group whose aim is to highlight the impending climate emergency/catastrophe. They are not a policy making think-tank. The governments of the world already have access to countless reports and bodies and research groups who are coming up with ways to combat climate change but they are not being heeded. XR's goal is to make governments act on the information they already have.

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Kezzer
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Kezzer » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:20 am

right? if only there was a political party who had green interests in mind!

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Hime
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Hime » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:31 am

Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:Anyway, the point was that XR should present a list of achievable goals to give themselves a bit more credibility.


See I don't agree with this.

They're a protest group whose aim is to highlight the impending climate emergency/catastrophe. They are not a policy making think-tank. The governments of the world already have access to countless reports and bodies and research groups who are coming up with ways to combat climate change but they are not being heeded. XR's goal is to make governments act on the information they already have.

So again then, what is the desired outcome of the protests? The PM could just say something along the lines of "We're doubling or efforts to greatly reduce the UK's carbon emissions by 2030". Is that enough?

I know it's not the job of protestors to do the governments job for them but it's such an impossible situation. What can the government realistically do that will have a meaningful impact and not be seen as eroding people's civil liberties?

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BID0
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by BID0 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:35 am

As Taf says. And some countries have even began to implement them following the Paris climate agreement. Every day we don't make a move to get started on this, it doesn't save us any money, the cost will still be there but with added interest on top. The quicker we can start bringing down our carbon debt the less we will have to pay off in the future. So while we have been idling around saying "it's impossible" or "how are we going to pay for it" for decades we have just made the whole task that much more difficult.

We need a government that's going to take this seriously. The current cabinet is comprised mostly (if not 100%) of climate change deniers and people who have been paid by the biggest polluters in the world.

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BID0
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by BID0 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:38 am

Hime wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:Anyway, the point was that XR should present a list of achievable goals to give themselves a bit more credibility.


See I don't agree with this.

They're a protest group whose aim is to highlight the impending climate emergency/catastrophe. They are not a policy making think-tank. The governments of the world already have access to countless reports and bodies and research groups who are coming up with ways to combat climate change but they are not being heeded. XR's goal is to make governments act on the information they already have.

So again then, what is the desired outcome of the protests? The PM could just say something along the lines of "We're doubling or efforts to greatly reduce the UK's carbon emissions by 2030". Is that enough?

I know it's not the job of protestors to do the governments job for them but it's such an impossible situation. What can the government realistically do that will have a meaningful impact and not be seen as eroding people's civil liberties?

https://rebellion.earth/the-truth/demands/

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Tafdolphin
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Tafdolphin » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:40 am

Hime wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:Anyway, the point was that XR should present a list of achievable goals to give themselves a bit more credibility.


See I don't agree with this.

They're a protest group whose aim is to highlight the impending climate emergency/catastrophe. They are not a policy making think-tank. The governments of the world already have access to countless reports and bodies and research groups who are coming up with ways to combat climate change but they are not being heeded. XR's goal is to make governments act on the information they already have.

So again then, what is the desired outcome of the protests? The PM could just say something along the lines of "We're doubling or efforts to greatly reduce the UK's carbon emissions by 2030". Is that enough?

I know it's not the job of protestors to do the governments job for them but it's such an impossible situation. What can the government realistically do that will have a meaningful impact and not be seen as eroding people's civil liberties?


Follow the advice they've been given. Commit to faster carbon reduction. Hell, at this point doing anything would be good.

Again, the governments know what has to be done to avert disaster but they aren't budging. I'm not an idealist: I recognise that bureaucracy and corporate pressures are in play here. But there will come a Tipping Point where none of that matters as the world we live on will crest the hill and environmental collapse will become inevitable.

Marching around waving banners is catharsis for people who realise this, and that is purpose enough for me.

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Hime
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Hime » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:43 am

BID0 wrote:
Hime wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:Anyway, the point was that XR should present a list of achievable goals to give themselves a bit more credibility.


See I don't agree with this.

They're a protest group whose aim is to highlight the impending climate emergency/catastrophe. They are not a policy making think-tank. The governments of the world already have access to countless reports and bodies and research groups who are coming up with ways to combat climate change but they are not being heeded. XR's goal is to make governments act on the information they already have.

So again then, what is the desired outcome of the protests? The PM could just say something along the lines of "We're doubling or efforts to greatly reduce the UK's carbon emissions by 2030". Is that enough?

I know it's not the job of protestors to do the governments job for them but it's such an impossible situation. What can the government realistically do that will have a meaningful impact and not be seen as eroding people's civil liberties?

https://rebellion.earth/the-truth/demands/

Cool. Again, I'm not disagreeing with anyone and fully support any and all action against climate change. It's just that we hear over and over of the main causes and very few realistic, achievable solutions. That doesn't mean I'm saying we should do nothing but maybe a group as passionate as XR full of educated people could get i some ideas out there?

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Tafdolphin
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion
by Tafdolphin » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:44 am

Hime wrote:
BID0 wrote:
Hime wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:Anyway, the point was that XR should present a list of achievable goals to give themselves a bit more credibility.


See I don't agree with this.

They're a protest group whose aim is to highlight the impending climate emergency/catastrophe. They are not a policy making think-tank. The governments of the world already have access to countless reports and bodies and research groups who are coming up with ways to combat climate change but they are not being heeded. XR's goal is to make governments act on the information they already have.

So again then, what is the desired outcome of the protests? The PM could just say something along the lines of "We're doubling or efforts to greatly reduce the UK's carbon emissions by 2030". Is that enough?

I know it's not the job of protestors to do the governments job for them but it's such an impossible situation. What can the government realistically do that will have a meaningful impact and not be seen as eroding people's civil liberties?

https://rebellion.earth/the-truth/demands/

Cool. Again, I'm not disagreeing with anyone and fully support any and all action against climate change. It's just that we hear over and over of the main causes and very few realistic, achievable solutions. That doesn't mean I'm saying we should do nothing but maybe a group as passionate as XR full of educated people could get i some ideas out there?


Again, I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of what XR is. The ideas are out there. XR just want them enacted.

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