Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience

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Squinty
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Squinty » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:02 am

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Squinty wrote:Those protestors were idiots, for blocking public transport and the guy kicking at the blokes head. But more importantly, it really is not right to drag someone from a train, and do whatever happened after that.

That's vigilante behaviour. And that's not good.

It's scary that a not insignificant proportion of the commuter population is capable of doing that on a Thursday morning. Kicking someone helplessly trapped on the floor, surrounded by other people doing the same thing... you like to think something like that is confined to a dramatic scene taken from a gangster film.


Lot of comments on twitter basically saying this is a good thing :dread:

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Lagamorph » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:03 am

I hope the police are able to identify every single one of the commuters involved in that assault.

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Balladeer
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Balladeer » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:10 am

I hope they actually take the time to do it as well.

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Blue Eyes
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Blue Eyes » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:10 am

Squinty wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Squinty wrote:Those protestors were idiots, for blocking public transport and the guy kicking at the blokes head. But more importantly, it really is not right to drag someone from a train, and do whatever happened after that.

That's vigilante behaviour. And that's not good.

It's scary that a not insignificant proportion of the commuter population is capable of doing that on a Thursday morning. Kicking someone helplessly trapped on the floor, surrounded by other people doing the same thing... you like to think something like that is confined to a dramatic scene taken from a gangster film.


Lot of comments on twitter basically saying this is a good thing :dread:

Several people rushed to intervene to form a protective ring around him. I don't think we are quite on the brink of civilizational collapse just yet.

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TV Dinner
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by TV Dinner » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:20 am

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Squinty wrote:Those protestors were idiots, for blocking public transport and the guy kicking at the blokes head. But more importantly, it really is not right to drag someone from a train, and do whatever happened after that.

That's vigilante behaviour. And that's not good.

It's scary that a not insignificant proportion of the commuter population is capable of doing that on a Thursday morning. Kicking someone helplessly trapped on the floor, surrounded by other people doing the same thing... you like to think something like that is confined to a dramatic scene taken from a gangster film.

Do you commute in London? It's a miserable experience made even worse by delays. I'm not surprised some people went mental and beat up a protestor who was attempting to cause even more CO2 emissions by shutting down the transport network.

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Blue Eyes
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Blue Eyes » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:23 am

TV Dinner wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Squinty wrote:Those protestors were idiots, for blocking public transport and the guy kicking at the blokes head. But more importantly, it really is not right to drag someone from a train, and do whatever happened after that.

That's vigilante behaviour. And that's not good.

It's scary that a not insignificant proportion of the commuter population is capable of doing that on a Thursday morning. Kicking someone helplessly trapped on the floor, surrounded by other people doing the same thing... you like to think something like that is confined to a dramatic scene taken from a gangster film.

Do you commute in London? It's a miserable experience made even worse by delays. I'm not surprised some people went mental and beat up a protestor who was attempting to cause even more CO2 emissions by shutting down the transport network.

He wasn't trying to cause even more CO2 emissions. Pretty sure that goes against their raison d'etre.

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Preezy
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Preezy » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:24 am

Does seem a bit odd and counter-productive that they'd try and disrupt public transport (same as when people were gluing themselves to trains at the last round of protests) - I don't really understand it but I'm sure one of the more learned fellows of the forum can enlighten us.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Lagamorph » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:26 am

Blue Eyes wrote:
TV Dinner wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Squinty wrote:Those protestors were idiots, for blocking public transport and the guy kicking at the blokes head. But more importantly, it really is not right to drag someone from a train, and do whatever happened after that.

That's vigilante behaviour. And that's not good.

It's scary that a not insignificant proportion of the commuter population is capable of doing that on a Thursday morning. Kicking someone helplessly trapped on the floor, surrounded by other people doing the same thing... you like to think something like that is confined to a dramatic scene taken from a gangster film.

Do you commute in London? It's a miserable experience made even worse by delays. I'm not surprised some people went mental and beat up a protestor who was attempting to cause even more CO2 emissions by shutting down the transport network.

He wasn't trying to cause even more CO2 emissions. Pretty sure that goes against their raison d'etre.

By shutting down public transport that would ultimately lead to more CO2 though as more people would drive/get taxis and cause more congestion on the roads.
Doesn't excuse the commuters at all though.

Just seen that 9 people have been arrested so far.

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Blue Eyes
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Blue Eyes » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:33 am

Preezy wrote:Does seem a bit odd and counter-productive that they'd try and disrupt public transport (same as when people were gluing themselves to trains at the last round of protests) - I don't really understand it but I'm sure one of the more learned fellows of the forum can enlighten us.

ER say "The actions form part of an ongoing campaign intended to increase pressure upon the Government. These latest actions may be seen as a continuation of the same campaign, due to continued Government inaction".

So it's still on-brand to 'force the government into action' and the easiest way to do that is to create a media and cultural buzz since years of campaigning, warnings and scientific research have been ignored.

The tube is knackered every day anyway to be honest. We should be thinking bigger picture.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Moggy » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:34 am

Disrupting public transport is monumentally stupid.

There’s no excuse to attack somebody like that though.

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Rocsteady
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Rocsteady » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:42 am

TV Dinner wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Squinty wrote:Those protestors were idiots, for blocking public transport and the guy kicking at the blokes head. But more importantly, it really is not right to drag someone from a train, and do whatever happened after that.

That's vigilante behaviour. And that's not good.

It's scary that a not insignificant proportion of the commuter population is capable of doing that on a Thursday morning. Kicking someone helplessly trapped on the floor, surrounded by other people doing the same thing... you like to think something like that is confined to a dramatic scene taken from a gangster film.

Do you commute in London? It's a miserable experience made even worse by delays. I'm not surprised some people went mental and beat up a protestor who was attempting to cause even more CO2 emissions by shutting down the transport network.

Lol what, I haven't seen the video but that sounds cowardly as strawberry float.

I don't care if the guy climbed the train and started shouting reprehensible nazi gooseberry fool, lining up to kick someone on the ground is an absolute pussy move.

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Knoyleo » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:04 am

Rocsteady wrote:
TV Dinner wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Squinty wrote:Those protestors were idiots, for blocking public transport and the guy kicking at the blokes head. But more importantly, it really is not right to drag someone from a train, and do whatever happened after that.

That's vigilante behaviour. And that's not good.

It's scary that a not insignificant proportion of the commuter population is capable of doing that on a Thursday morning. Kicking someone helplessly trapped on the floor, surrounded by other people doing the same thing... you like to think something like that is confined to a dramatic scene taken from a gangster film.

Do you commute in London? It's a miserable experience made even worse by delays. I'm not surprised some people went mental and beat up a protestor who was attempting to cause even more CO2 emissions by shutting down the transport network.

Lol what, I haven't seen the video but that sounds cowardly as strawberry float.

I don't care if the guy climbed the train and started shouting reprehensible nazi gooseberry fool, lining up to kick someone on the ground is an absolute pussy move.


:dread:

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Rocsteady
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Rocsteady » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:32 am

I'm not gonna lie, I thought it would be worse.

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KK
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by KK » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:45 am

I see the protester on the roof of the train also initially kicks the bloke trying to get him to come down at the 11 second mark.

These people were already unpopular with half the population, but they did at least have more Londoners on side than any other part of the country.

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Blue Eyes
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Blue Eyes » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:48 am

KK wrote:I see the protester on the roof of the train also initially kicks the bloke trying to get him to come down at the 11 second mark.

These people were already unpopular with half the population, but they did at least have more Londoners on side than any other part of the country.

Well, he was trying to drag him off the train so they could all kick his head in to be fair.

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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Gemini73 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:34 pm

The government et al won't have to do much for Extinction Rebellion to become hugely unpopular. They can just sit back and watch the more militant members hang the whole movement.

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Venom
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Venom » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:17 pm

Moggy wrote:Disrupting public transport is monumentally stupid.

There’s no excuse to attack somebody like that though.



The guy protesting on the train wasn't a criminal or a terrorist or anything like that so for a mini-mob to attack him whilst on the ground demonstrates how regular people can suddenly go wild in a crowd. But if you are a Londoner having to travel pre-sunrise on over-full of grouchy people on London transport then you understand - that rage is never far away from anyone! What this protestor's fatal error was, was to initiate a kick on the person climbing up, that then made him a nuisance and an aggressor.

Also, I saw a bit of ITV news and an asian guy who, may have taken the footage, was saying that the protestor chose the wrong place because these were working class people having to go to work and to pay their bills. I specifically say the guy is asian because there has been some discussion recently that Extinction Rebellion (not environmentalism) is predominantly a middle-class white protest group. The rationale being that people from ethnic minorities in London are more likely to be working class, also white working class all have to focus on matters closer to home, i.e. people on the protest don't have to worry about getting fired.

Earlier this year I was in a group. And what I was initially shocked by was the middle-class students, were the most vociferous supporters of Extinction and wanted to cover them. These students who had gone to private school, spoke with received pronunciation, had fees and living expenses paid for, and corrected me for pronouncing the letter T in the word ofTen. In fact it was bordering on the militant and when talking about it in front of others they would visibly get angry. Going from 0-60 on the indignant scale made them look irrational.


Gemini73 wrote:The government et al won't have to do much for Extinction Rebellion to become hugely unpopular. They can just sit back and watch the more militant members hang the whole movement.


This is what I was seeing a while back. For so long Extinction have had an excellent PR game in that, I would say, the general public who didn't support them had no negative feeling about them, in London the sympathetic mayor was able to use this as license to have the police take a non-confrontational approach and allow them to peacefully block high profile areas. But when you have the more passionate members who are frustrated with government and want changes immediately then they want to raise the game by taking a more aggressive approach. Blocking bridges, fine. Singing, fine. But that video today is not likely to draw much sympathy for the protestor who was assaulted. It's a huge PR blunder because it risks turning this into a class war.

Last edited by Venom on Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Venom
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Venom » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:26 pm

First tweet was taking just prior to the incident. You get to see the faces of the crowd and hear someone say 'I got work'.

The second tweet is where they pull the guy down. Respect to the woman who tries the hardest to stop the mob.


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FatDaz
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by FatDaz » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:31 pm

Pretty sure the ER protests were banned in London so he was in fact committing a crime, aside from the public disorder and various offences from blocking the railway and potentially endangering life.

Not that it makes attacking him right but he should have known his audience.

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Balladeer
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PostRe: Extinction Rebellion - I'm extremely sorry for the inconvenience
by Balladeer » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:05 pm

I have read (unsourced, unconfirmed, please check; but from a bloke who knows his politics and generally has a cool head) that XR as a whole voted against this, and an ‘affinity group’ (so a few people) decided to do it anyway. That might explain the poor choice of location and indeed protest venue.

The trouble is that doesn’t matter: the decentralised nature of the effort means that this will be associated with XR regardless, and I agree that it’s broadly a PR misstep. Not that the commuters did themselves any PR favours, but London commuters already have a bad image. (Please note I am a London commuter thank you.)


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