The Football Thread 2017-18

[Tomous]

Apparently there's an upcoming England squad announcement. I look forward to various undeserving players like Wilshere, Henderson and Hart being included in the squad at the expense of players having brilliant seasons.

A few uncapped players have had call ups:

Nick Pope, James Tarkowski, Alfie Mawson and Lewis Cook

[Photek]

Apparently there's an upcoming England squad announcement. I look forward to various undeserving players like Wilshere, Henderson and Hart being included in the squad at the expense of players having brilliant seasons.

It would be great if you could think of some players having brilliant seasons bar the keepers. Ta.

[DML]

I literally have no idea what you mean Dml, please clarify. In your response to Sykes.

To be fair, I'm just presenting a counter argument because I believe there is one.

The greatest player of all time is a big claim. No-one is saying he isn't the greatest player now (although even then you could make an argument for Ronaldo).

Loads of players have attempted to dethrone Pele/Maradona debates - and many have failed. My argument is simple...can you be the greatest player of ALL TIME if you haven't won the sports most iconic trophy playing for a country who has every capability of winning it? I'd say that of any sport. I'd say that of Red Rum, he never won a major race outside the Grand National...

Indeed, I think Messi's international form full stop is a great argument against his crowning - he has for large swathes of his career been incredibly average when surrounded by worse players in the international side.

I'm not even saying that Messi is worse than Pele/Maradona, but I do think people are a bit hasty to just crown him the best ever. There have been many legendary players.

[Denster]

Messi may well be the greatest club player the world has ever seen.

On the international stage. Doesn't even threaten the top ten.

Till he delivers in a world cup - he isn't the greatest ever.

Please don't argue that he already has - he hasn't. Last world cup he was anonymous in the semi final and final.

[emoji38]

Trolling again, take a day off mate

No, I'm not. It's an opinion i've expressed several times.

That's Denny all over though, he uses the same type of mentalism to say any manager that wins the Champions League is one of the best in the world, congrats to Roberto Di Matteo.

I believe that the discussion you're referring to was about Zidane after he'd won back to back CL titles. Something no other coach has done since the CL began. I don't believe I cited Di Matteo as an example at all. You're only doing so now to attempt to prove a point. In your usual goalpost moving way. That's you all over. I expect the famous Photek backtrack any minute.


As a qualifying statement - I didn't say Messi has to win the world cup but he has never bestrode one or dominated one with his genius. If you're going to peddle someone as the greatest ever then they should measure up on every level. He's never delivered for Argentina at a world cup in anything like the way he does at Barca.
Great players deliver when it matters. At the last world cup - in the backyard of his countries bitterest rivals - Messi didn't. The semi and Final are where you look to your greatest player to deliver. He didn't.

If he has a fantastic world cup in the summer - then we'll talk about him being the greatest.

At club level. He makes a compelling argument. At international. Not a chance.

[Preezy]

The original Ronaldo is the greatest player ever.

/thread

[Tomous]

Regarding the England squad. think Ben Mee can count himself unlucky to miss out. It was his or Tarlowski I guess.

Hopefully Alfie Mawson can get on and add some £s to his price tag when we inevitably sell him this summer.

[Drumstick]

Regarding the England squad. think Ben Mee can count himself unlucky to miss out. It was his or Tarlowski I guess.

Hopefully Alfie Mawson can get on and add some £s to his price tag when we inevitably sell him this summer.

Feel the same about Lewis Dunk tbh. Hopefully this exclusion means we'll be able to hold onto him for another season.

Nice to see Cahill dropped. Wouldn't object if Stones got the same treatment.

[Blue Eyes]

What the strawberry float does Hart have to do to not get selected for an England squad? Why has Southgate picked FOUR strawberry floating goalkeepers. I think I hate Southgate now and he should be fired and replaced before the World Cup starts.

[Drumstick]

What the strawberry float does Hart have to do to not get selected for an England squad? Why has Southgate picked FOUR strawberry floating goalkeepers. I think I hate Southgate now and he should be fired and replaced before the World Cup starts.

To be fair, Southgate made it clear that the number one GK spot is totally up for grabs and implied Hart had been kept in the squad for his experience in case some of the other GKs get injured between now and June.

[Moggy]

What the strawberry float does Hart have to do to not get selected for an England squad? Why has Southgate picked FOUR strawberry floating goalkeepers. I think I hate Southgate now and he should be fired and replaced before the World Cup starts.

He is going as the official food and drink taster for the team. If Russia do try anything, then all we have lost is our office dandruff spokesman.

[Blue Eyes]

What the strawberry float does Hart have to do to not get selected for an England squad? Why has Southgate picked FOUR strawberry floating goalkeepers. I think I hate Southgate now and he should be fired and replaced before the World Cup starts.

To be fair, Southgate made it clear that the number one GK spot is totally up for grabs and implied Hart had been kept in the squad for his experience in case some of the other GKs get injured between now and June.

strawberry float that experience bollocks. Southgate is the manager and he's the one who should ne advising and doing whatever these supposed experienced campaigners do, which I suspect is strawberry float all.

[Preezy]

Experienced at being a strawberry floating idiot, that's all Hart is good for. That and repeated failure with England.

[Psychic]

If Pele and Maradona didn't exist, I'd agree...but they do and they both won the World Cup. Its fair to say Messi hasn't actually ever shown the same form for Argentina (a team that can definitely win the World Cup) as when surrounded by greats at Barca.

Players are only ever judged by what they win...thats the point of the game after all!

The World Cup is the most iconic trophy in world football - maybe in world sport, can the greatest ever never have lifted it? I dunno.

For me personally footballing talent becoming so concentrated in Europe and particularly the Champions League means that performances there (In addition to the fading relevance of international football) are something I value more highly than international tournaments every other year. Fair to say that Messi hasn't always been at his sparkling best for Argentina as it is that you value the World Cup higher than I do. I'm not sure there will ever be a consensus on who the greatest footballer is, with everyone having different criteria and the game evolving so much over the years.

But there is a concencus....its the classic argument...Pele or Maradona?

If you are going to insert Messi into that argument, when Cruyff, Best, Ronaldo, the other Ronaldo, Zidane, Puskas...all these unbelievable players who haven't been able to enter that fray, you better have a bloody good argument.

I agree that it would take someone special to be regarded as good as or better than any other footballer.

If you had a winger who was Messi's equal in terms of dribbling then he'd be one of the best wingers of the modern era.
If you had a midfielder who had Messi's passing ability he'd be one of the best midfielders of all time.
If you had a goalscorer who had Messi's finishing ability he'd be one of the greatest goalscorers of all time.

And he's all three. In a Barca team that had the spine of a Spanish squad that was one of the greatest national teams ever, a Barca team that has had incredible attacking talent like Villa, Eto'o, Suarez and Neymar, he's shone brighter than them all and for so long. He's the sort of player that comes along when you're playing Football Manager and makes you shake your head at how unrealistic the game is.

He's just unreal, an absolute freak of a player.

[DML]

If Pele and Maradona didn't exist, I'd agree...but they do and they both won the World Cup. Its fair to say Messi hasn't actually ever shown the same form for Argentina (a team that can definitely win the World Cup) as when surrounded by greats at Barca.

Players are only ever judged by what they win...thats the point of the game after all!

The World Cup is the most iconic trophy in world football - maybe in world sport, can the greatest ever never have lifted it? I dunno.

For me personally footballing talent becoming so concentrated in Europe and particularly the Champions League means that performances there (In addition to the fading relevance of international football) are something I value more highly than international tournaments every other year. Fair to say that Messi hasn't always been at his sparkling best for Argentina as it is that you value the World Cup higher than I do. I'm not sure there will ever be a consensus on who the greatest footballer is, with everyone having different criteria and the game evolving so much over the years.

But there is a concencus....its the classic argument...Pele or Maradona?

If you are going to insert Messi into that argument, when Cruyff, Best, Ronaldo, the other Ronaldo, Zidane, Puskas...all these unbelievable players who haven't been able to enter that fray, you better have a bloody good argument.

I agree that it would take someone special to be regarded as good as or better than any other footballer.

If you had a winger who was Messi's equal in terms of dribbling then he'd be one of the best wingers of the modern era.
If you had a midfielder who had Messi's passing ability he'd be one of the best midfielders of all time.
If you had a goalscorer who had Messi's finishing ability he'd be one of the greatest goalscorers of all time.

And he's all three. In a Barca team that had the spine of a Spanish squad that was one of the greatest national teams ever, a Barca team that has had incredible attacking talent like Villa, Eto'o, Suarez and Neymar, he's shone brighter than them all and for so long. He's the sort of player that comes along when you're playing Football Manager and makes you shake your head at how unrealistic the game is.

He's just unreal, an absolute freak of a player.

Thing is, hes the greatest player of this era. I don't think its fair to take players out of their eras and compare them directly, as they don't have access to the same sports science etc, but its fair to call Pele and Maradona freaks of their era too.

If he wins the World Cup, the argument is done and dusted. Without it, I think the argument will continue for years to come. That is due to how good he is mind.

[Psychic]

Bit late to the party with the England squad announcement but it really shows how thin the talent pool is in places. Don't think Lallana should've made the squad at all. Hopefully Nick Pope gets some time in an England shirt as he seems the best of a bad bunch.

[DML]

Bit late to the party with the England squad announcement but it really shows how thin the talent pool is in places. Don't think Lallana should've made the squad at all. Hopefully Nick Pope gets some time in an England shirt as he seems the best of a bad bunch.

If Hart starts at the World Cup, I'm done with England - it would be such a joke.

[Blue Eyes]

Bit late to the party with the England squad announcement but it really shows how thin the talent pool is in places. Don't think Lallana should've made the squad at all. Hopefully Nick Pope gets some time in an England shirt as he seems the best of a bad bunch.

If Hart starts at the World Cup, I'm done with England - it would be such a joke.

We should be done with England after their disgraceful performance at the Euros, and the World Cup before that and the Euros before that, etc.

[Moggy]

Bit late to the party with the England squad announcement but it really shows how thin the talent pool is in places. Don't think Lallana should've made the squad at all. Hopefully Nick Pope gets some time in an England shirt as he seems the best of a bad bunch.

If Hart starts at the World Cup, I'm done with England - it would be such a joke.

We should be done with England after their disgraceful performance at the Euros, and the World Cup before that and the Euros before that, etc.

Basically every England performance since 2002.

[Tomous]

Bit late to the party with the England squad announcement but it really shows how thin the talent pool is in places. Don't think Lallana should've made the squad at all. Hopefully Nick Pope gets some time in an England shirt as he seems the best of a bad bunch.

If Hart starts at the World Cup, I'm done with England - it would be such a joke.

We should be done with England after their disgraceful performance at the Euros, and the World Cup before that and the Euros before that, etc.

Basically every England performance since 2002.

But not their performance at Euro 2008

[Moggy]

Bit late to the party with the England squad announcement but it really shows how thin the talent pool is in places. Don't think Lallana should've made the squad at all. Hopefully Nick Pope gets some time in an England shirt as he seems the best of a bad bunch.

If Hart starts at the World Cup, I'm done with England - it would be such a joke.

We should be done with England after their disgraceful performance at the Euros, and the World Cup before that and the Euros before that, etc.

Basically every England performance since 2002.

But not their performance at Euro 2008

I blame the umbrella.