Nerve agent in Salisbury

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Moggy
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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Moggy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:30 pm

Dual wrote:Commie Corbyn strikes again :lol: he is a Russian agent!

Worried about British fan safety at World Cup now :(


The Russians don’t really employ British socialists as agents anymore, people like Farage are the ones holding their hands out for Putin’s rubles. And all those donations from Russia that the Tory party received….

British fan safety was always in doubt in Russia, it will be worse now. You’d have to be mental to go there to watch any games. :dread:

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Vermilion » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:45 pm

As far as the world cup is concerned, i'm just looking forward to collecting the panini stickers.

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Garth » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:48 pm

Farage was saying yesterday May should go meet Putin in Moscow as our response.

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Vermilion » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:49 pm

Garth wrote:Farage was saying yesterday May should go meet Putin in Moscow as our response.


Were she to do that, it might be wise to take her own tea set.

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Moggy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:52 pm

Garth wrote:Farage was saying yesterday May should go meet Putin in Moscow as our response.


I really hope the rumours about Farage getting a subpoena from Mueller are true. :nod:

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Tafdolphin » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:01 pm

Arguing with a guy on twitter.

- "Where's the evidence this was Russia?"

- [I post article on the nerve agent used which specifies its origin and exclusive use by Russian covert agencies]

- "That's interesting but not evidence"

:|

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Green Gecko » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:04 pm

Ah, you must mean the evidence of the evidence. What he's really looking for is the actual sample of the nerve agent found alongside the body in a small vial named "Warning: lethal nerve agent. Do not use. Made in Russia. Property of the KGB". Possibly a photo taken by a reliable source at the scene? With a timestamp and not posted on the internet.

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Vermilion » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:07 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:Arguing with a guy on twitter.


Well there's your mistake right there.

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Preezy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:07 pm

"If found please return to V. Putin... no wait that's too obvious...If found please return to Vladimir P, the Kremlin, Moscow, Russia"

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Green Gecko » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:09 pm

I was going for that but I feel weirdly bad pinning these things directly on state leaders, I mean Tony Blair didn't actually kill all those muslamics.

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by satriales » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:18 pm

Isn't the nerve agent made from just two common ingredients? It still needs to be done in a lab and probably by Russia, but is it actually impossible for anyone else to make?

The attack has Russia's fingerprints all over it, and I'd be very surprised if it was anyone else, but I can see why some people would want more evidence than the method of attack. I'm sure police must have extra evidence such as the identity of the attackers.

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Dual
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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Dual » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:25 pm

Moggy wrote:
Dual wrote:Commie Corbyn strikes again :lol: he is a Russian agent!

Worried about British fan safety at World Cup now :(


The Russians don’t really employ British socialists as agents anymore, people like Farage are the ones holding their hands out for Putin’s rubles. And all those donations from Russia that the Tory party received….

British fan safety was always in doubt in Russia, it will be worse now. You’d have to be mental to go there to watch any games. :dread:


Sorry I forgot you can only read sarcasm with a wink emoji. I don't think he is an actual Russian spy.

He is a sympathiser though and he's comments are incredibly out of line. Just because he's the opposition leader doesn't mean he has to be contrarian on every subject. He should be backing up May on this when our citizens are at risk.

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by OrangeRKN » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:28 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:Arguing with a guy on twitter.


Here was your first mistake

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Preezy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:28 pm

And that's why Corbyn will never get my vote, the guy is a liability.

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Peter Crisp » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:35 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:Arguing with a guy on twitter.

- "Where's the evidence this was Russia?"

- [I post article on the nerve agent used which specifies its origin and exclusive use by Russian covert agencies]

- "That's interesting but not evidence"

:|


Welcome to the wonderful conversational techniques that's also found on USPoliticsOnline.
Pretty much the idea is that all evidence they produce for right wing data is fine and dandy and everything you produce is left wing propaganda and you've just been brainwashed by the liberal elites in the media and the paid for scientists who produce only junk science.

It's like arguing with toddlers about molecular biology and they keep responding by asking why and failing to listen when you give them a reasonable response.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Moggy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:39 pm

Dual wrote:Sorry I forgot you can only read sarcasm with a wink emoji. I don't think he is an actual Russian spy.


You are famous on here for people "not getting" you. A wink emoji might be helpful if you are trying to make a sarcastic point. ;)

He is a sympathiser though and he's comments are incredibly out of line. Just because he's the opposition leader doesn't mean he has to be contrarian on every subject. He should be backing up May on this when our citizens are at risk.


A sympathiser for what? Modern Russia? Stalinist Russia? The IRA? Hamas?

Corbyn is an idiot, but there's nothing to suggest he is a Putin sympathiser.

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Dual
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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Dual » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:15 pm

Moggy wrote:
Dual wrote:Sorry I forgot you can only read sarcasm with a wink emoji. I don't think he is an actual Russian spy.


You are famous on here for people "not getting" you. A wink emoji might be helpful if you are trying to make a sarcastic point. ;)

He is a sympathiser though and he's comments are incredibly out of line. Just because he's the opposition leader doesn't mean he has to be contrarian on every subject. He should be backing up May on this when our citizens are at risk.


A sympathiser for what? Modern Russia? Stalinist Russia? The IRA? Hamas?

Corbyn is an idiot, but there's nothing to suggest he is a Putin sympathiser.


Didn't he appear on Russian state television? ;) ;) ;)

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by satriales » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:17 pm

France are also asking for proof that Russia were behind the attack, before they will take any action.

While he called the attack a “very serious act” on a strategic ally, Griveaux said France was waiting for “definitive conclusions” and evidence that the “facts were completely true” before taking a position.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... itics-live

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by satriales » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:27 pm

I missed the PM statement and Corbyn's response but just read the text and I don't see anything majorly controversial in there. Tory MPs were saying he refused to condemn the attack when he clearly did exactly that in his final sentence:

Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)
I thank the Prime Minister for advance sight of her statement and echo her words about the service of our emergency and public services.

The attack in Salisbury was an appalling act of violence. Nerve agents are abominable if used in any war. It is utterly reckless to use them in a civilian environment. This attack in Britain has concerned our allies in the European Union, NATO and the UN, and their words of solidarity have strengthened our position diplomatically. Our response as a country must be guided by the rule of law, support for international agreements and respect for human rights. When it comes to the use of chemical weapons on British soil, it is essential that the Government work with the United Nations to strengthen its chemical weapons monitoring system and involve the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.

The Prime Minister said on Monday:

“either this was a direct act by the Russian state…or the Russian Government lost control of their potentially catastrophically damaging nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others.”—[Official Report, 12 March 2018; Vol. 637, c. 620-21.]

Our response must be decisive, proportionate and based on clear evidence. If the Government believe that it is still a possibility that Russia negligently lost control of a military-grade nerve agent, what action is being taken through the OPCW with our allies? I welcome the fact that the police are working with the OPCW.

Has the Prime Minister taken the necessary steps under the chemical weapons convention to make a formal request for evidence from the Russian Government under article IX(2)? How has she responded to the Russian Government’s request for a sample of the agent used in the Salisbury attack to run their own tests? Has high-resolution trace analysis been run on a sample of the nerve agent, and has that revealed any evidence as to the location of its production or the identity of its perpetrators?

Can the Prime Minister update the House on what conversations, if any, she has had with the Russian Government? While suspending planned high-level contacts, does she agree that is essential to retain a robust dialogue with Russia, in the interests of our own and wider international security?

With many countries speaking out alongside us, the circumstances demand that we build an international consensus to address the use of chemical weapons. We should urge our international allies to join us in calling on Russia to reveal without delay full details of its chemical weapons programme to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons. It is, as we on the Labour Benches have expressed before, a matter of huge regret that our country’s diplomatic capacity has been stripped back, with cuts of 25% in the last five years. It is—[Interruption.]

Mr Speaker
Order. The right hon. Gentleman must be heard. There will be adequate opportunity for colleagues on both sides of the House to put questions. Members must be heard.

Jeremy Corbyn
I could not understand a word of what the Foreign Secretary just said, but his behaviour demeans his office.

It is in moments such as these that Governments realise how vital strong diplomacy and political pressure are for our security and national interest. The measures we take have to be effective, not just for the long-term security of our citizens but to secure a world free of chemical weapons. Can the Prime Minister outline what discussions she has had with our partners in the European Union, NATO and the UN and what willingness there was to take multilateral action? While the poisonings of Sergei and Yulia Skripal are confronting us today, what efforts are being made by the Government to reassess the death of Mr Skripal’s wife, Liudmila, who died in 2012, and the deaths of his elder brother and son in the past two years?

We have a duty to speak out against the abuse of human rights by the Putin Government and their supporters, both at home and abroad, and I join many others in this House in paying tribute to the many campaigners in Russia for human rights, justice and democracy in that country. We must do more to address the dangers posed by the state’s relationship with unofficial mafia-like groups and corrupt oligarchs. We must also expose the flows of ill-gotten cash between the Russian state and billionaires who become stupendously rich by looting their country and subsequently use London to protect their wealth. We welcome the Prime Minister today clearly committing to support the Magnitsky amendments and implementing them as soon as possible, as Labour has long pushed for.

Yesterday Nikolai Glushkov, a Russian exile who was close friends with the late oligarch Boris Berezovsky, was found dead in his London home. What reassurances can the Prime Minister give to citizens of Russian origin living in Britain that they are safe here?

The events in Salisbury earlier this month are abominable and have been rightly condemned across the House. Britain has to build a consensus with our allies, and we support the Prime Minister in taking multilateral and firm action to ensure that we strengthen the chemical weapons convention and that this dreadful, appalling act, which we totally condemn, never happens again in our country.

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PostRe: Nerve agent used in Salisbury was "military-grade of type developed by Russia"
by Garth » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:40 pm

More from the Russian Foreign Ministry:
The March 14 statement made by British Prime Minister Theresa May in Parliament on measures to “punish” Russia, under the false pretext of its alleged involvement in the poisoning of Sergey Skripal and his daughter, constitutes an unprecedented, flagrant provocation that undermines the foundations of normal dialogue between our countries.

We believe it is absolutely unacceptable and unworthy of the British Government to seek to further seriously aggravate relations in pursuit of its unseemly political ends, having announced a whole series of hostile measures, including the expulsion of 23 Russian diplomats from the country.

Instead of completing its own investigation and using established international formats and instruments, including within the framework of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons – in which we were prepared to cooperate – the British Government opted for confrontation with Russia. Obviously, by investigating this incident in a unilateral, non-transparent way, the British Government is again seeking to launch a groundless anti-Russian campaign.

Needless to say, our response measures will not be long in coming.

https://rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6421

Corbyn:
The attack in Salisbury was an appalling act of violence, which we condemn in the strongest terms.

Nerve agents are abominable if used in war. It is utterly reckless for them to be used in a civilian environment.

The Prime Minister said on Monday and again today that Russia was either directly responsible or it was culpable because it lost control of this nerve agent.

The Russian authorities must be held to account on the basis of the evidence and our response must be both decisive and proportionate.

The attack in Britain has concerned our allies in the European Union, Nato and in the United Nations, and their words of solidarity have strengthened our position diplomatically.

We have a duty to speak out against the abuse of human rights by Putin’s Government and its support, both at home and abroad, and pay tribute to the many campaigners in Russia for human rights. And we must do more to address the dangers posed by the Russian state’s relationship with unofficial mafia-like groups and corrupt oligarchs.

We need to expose the flows of ill-gotten cash between the Russian state and billionaires who became stupendously rich by looting their country and subsequently using London to protect their wealth. We welcome the Prime Minister’s clear commitment today to support the Magnitsky amendments to sanction human rights abusers, as we have long been calling for.

Britain should build an international consensus to strengthen the chemical weapons convention, and ensure that such a horrific attack never happens again.

https://www.facebook.com/JeremyCorbynMP ... 9587783872


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