French Publication doesn't give in to Terrorism

Lucien wrote:
NickSCFC wrote:World average IQ map, for correlation purposes

So basically, religious people are a bit dim.

The above is average IQ in countries, btw.

melatonin wrote:

Suffering from a bit of graph aphasia there? :lol:

This graph offends me.

Won't murder anyone because of it though, lol!

Most people who adopt religion, those who aren't indoctrinated from a young age, usually link their belief back to some crisis in their lives. This suggests that the main reason for faith is comfort rather than lack of intelligence; you are more likely to become a believer if you experience traumatic events that make religion a valuable crutch. Therefore I think the reason countries have higher and lower levels of belief is more to do with how hard life is in those countries. More affluent and wealthier countries have citizens who face less risks and less misfortune hence the difference.

You will find it harder to give up religion if you have nothing in your earthly life to give you hope.

StayDead wrote:
Cuttooth wrote:I've never understood this notion that's going around that Muslims should take any systematic specific mocking of their religion on the chin, just because 'the rest of them' apparently can and do.

I think the issue is the hypocrisy of it all. The Islamic faith is actually non violent, but to meet with this "mockery" they turn to violence and rioting.

Yes but the people that are causing the violence are not going to be appeased by continued mockery. I don't know what this tactic by some elements of the media is going to achieve. Ordinary Muslims (the majority) do take the mockery and criticism on the chin. You simply will never get through to these hard liners by continuing to mock them in this way.

captain red dog wrote:
StayDead wrote:
Cuttooth wrote:I've never understood this notion that's going around that Muslims should take any systematic specific mocking of their religion on the chin, just because 'the rest of them' apparently can and do.

I think the issue is the hypocrisy of it all. The Islamic faith is actually non violent, but to meet with this "mockery" they turn to violence and rioting.

Yes but the people that are causing the violence are not going to be appeased by continued mockery. I don't know what this tactic by some elements of the media is going to achieve. Ordinary Muslims (the majority) do take the mockery and criticism on the chin. You simply will never get through to these hard liners by continuing to mock them in this way.

Why would you cave to a terrorists demands? It just sets a precedent that if you use enough violence, it will get you what you want. It's a slap in the face because you justify that type of behaviour.

I can't even believe you're entertaining the idea of it.

captain red dog wrote:The Islamic faith is actually non violent...

I struggle to comprehend this concept, given all the available evidence.

captain red dog wrote:
StayDead wrote:
Cuttooth wrote:I've never understood this notion that's going around that Muslims should take any systematic specific mocking of their religion on the chin, just because 'the rest of them' apparently can and do.

I think the issue is the hypocrisy of it all. The Islamic faith is actually non violent, but to meet with this "mockery" they turn to violence and rioting.

Yes but the people that are causing the violence are not going to be appeased by continued mockery. I don't know what this tactic by some elements of the media is going to achieve. Ordinary Muslims (the majority) do take the mockery and criticism on the chin. You simply will never get through to these hard liners by continuing to mock them in this way.

The idea isn't to appease them. It's to show to them that this is how it is. In a civilised society we are allowed to make fun of people's ideas and beliefs if we want to without fear of violence.

captain red dog wrote:
StayDead wrote:
Cuttooth wrote:I've never understood this notion that's going around that Muslims should take any systematic specific mocking of their religion on the chin, just because 'the rest of them' apparently can and do.

I think the issue is the hypocrisy of it all. The Islamic faith is actually non violent, but to meet with this "mockery" they turn to violence and rioting.

Yes but the people that are causing the violence are not going to be appeased by continued mockery. I don't know what this tactic by some elements of the media is going to achieve. Ordinary Muslims (the majority) do take the mockery and criticism on the chin. You simply will never get through to these hard liners by continuing to mock them in this way.

We wont get through full stop. These people are full retard, indoctrinated from an early age and it would be nigh on impossible to unbrainwash them.

NickSCFC wrote:Also wouldn't you think God would've sent his message to the Indians or Chinese rather than some illiterates in the arse-end of nowhere.

It's probably worth pointing out that, back in the day, the Arab nations were pretty advanced in terms of scientific/mathematical thinking. It's believed that algebra was first discovered in ancient Egypt and Babylon.

Hardly illiterates, then.

Which makes me wonder what the point of this sort of campaign is. You won't convince them to the western view, they don't understand the point being made, they won't act reasonably, so why bother.

All you this campaign is really doing is asking for trouble.

captain red dog wrote:Which makes me wonder what the point of this sort of campaign is. You won't convince them to the western view, they don't understand the point being made, they won't act reasonably, so why bother.

All you this campaign is really doing is asking for trouble.

No its exercising the magazines right to print a cartoon. The point is they should not and will not be intimidated by a bunch of fundamentalist troglodytes and will continue to publish whatever they want.

captain red dog wrote:Which makes me wonder what the point of this sort of campaign is. You won't convince them to the western view, they don't understand the point being made, they won't act reasonably, so why bother.

Because to cease to exercise our freedoms because of the threats and posturing of bullies and tyrants is to no longer hold those freedoms. If we are now intimidated into censoring our media, be it government censorship by law or journalistic self-censorship by fear, then we no longer have freedom of speech in our civilisation. I commend the magazines and newspapers who are taking part in this campaign: they are putting themselves at risk for our rights so that you and I do not have to.

Knoyleo wrote:
NickSCFC wrote:Also wouldn't you think God would've sent his message to the Indians or Chinese rather than some illiterates in the arse-end of nowhere.

It's probably worth pointing out that, back in the day, the Arab nations were pretty advanced in terms of scientific/mathematical thinking. It's believed that algebra was first discovered in ancient Egypt and Babylon.

Hardly illiterates, then.

"It forms a strong presumption against all supernatural and miraculous events, that they are observed chiefly to abound among ignorant and barbarous ancestors; or if civilized people has ever given admission to any of them, that people will be found to have received them from these barbarous ancestors, who transmitted them with that inviolable sanction and authority, which always attend perceived opinions."

Alternatively, instead of the Hume quote we can go to the Hitchens' quote around 2:50*:

*Hitchens is talking about Christianity here but it equally applies to all the Abrahamic religions and is the same argument Hume makes but in YT form.

Karlprof wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Which makes me wonder what the point of this sort of campaign is. You won't convince them to the western view, they don't understand the point being made, they won't act reasonably, so why bother.

Because to cease to exercise our freedoms because of the threats and posturing of bullies and tyrants is to no longer hold those freedoms. If we are now intimidated into censoring our media, be it government censorship by law or journalistic self-censorship by fear, then we no longer have freedom of speech in our civilisation. I commend the magazines and newspapers who are taking part in this campaign: they are putting themselves at risk for our rights so that you and I do not have to.

Who are we protecting these rights from? It certainly isn't the nut jobs causing trouble in the Eastern nations. They literally have no idea what the purpose of the cartoons is.

That certainly is who we're trying to protect these rights from. Those who think they can resort to violence and murder because they're offended by some drawings. If we decide that we're not going to depict their prophet, because we're afraid they may be violent to us in retaliation, then all it does is prove that their methods, which amount to little more than ignorant bullying, work, and elevates not only their inflated sense of self worth, but also their standing over the rest of us.

Lucien wrote:
Meep wrote:Most people who adopt religion, those who aren't indoctrinated from a young age, usually link their belief back to some crisis in their lives. This suggests that the main reason for faith is comfort rather than lack of intelligence; you are more likely to become a believer if you experience traumatic events that make religion a valuable crutch. Therefore I think the reason countries have higher and lower levels of belief is more to do with how hard life is in those countries. More affluent and wealthier countries have citizens who face less risks and less misfortune hence the difference.

You will find it harder to give up religion if you have nothing in your earthly life to give you hope.

That's relative though.

You don't have to go back far to see when America was virtually a Christian land; even today around 80% of them are, supposedly, Christian. 90-ish% believe in God. Yet their lifes are FAR more comfortable than the lifes of people living in, say, Ethiopia. Nevertheless around 10% in that country, too, are irreligious.

I imagine that will change; young people in America are less religious now than they ever have been. But it's surely not comfort that has caused that. Unless the internet is a massive blanket of comfort, then it's more likely, I think, that it's the access to information and the ability to talk to massive amounts of people from around the world that is causing the drop.

Aha, but America is one of the least egalitarian of all developed nations. State provision and welfare is extremely poor so misfortune, such as falling ill, can mean disaster for many Americans. It is also the least socially mobile of developed nations, meaning on average people have less hope in their lives of ever overcoming their disadvantages simply through work and education.

French Publication doesn't give in to Terrorism

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