GBeebies Talk Trash - TalkTV to close television channel and move 'online only'

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Moggy
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PostRe: GBeebies
by Moggy » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:31 am

captain red dog wrote:So Andrew Neil appeared on Question Time, and I'm sure he has an NDA against him, but he seemed pretty clear that Gbeebies wanted to go the hard right Fox News style, and he didn't want to be part of it.

I can see a bit of hypocrisy there, he has allowed what most would consider to be far right columnists in The Spectator. He has also appeared only on Farage's show since his departure. However, if a channel is too far right for Andrew Neil, and he, kind of, openly speaks about it, I think we can all safely assume the future direction of Gbeebies.


It's far more than a bit of hypocrisy. Andrew Neil has been a stain on broadcasting and print journalism for decades.

He somehow managed to get a free pass because at election time he'd give the right wing parties some tough questions.

But when you look at the things he's said, the things he's allowed to be published and his whole "GB News will be anti-woke!" thing, it's pretty clear that he is comfortable with the hard/far right.

The difference of opinion here will be a combination of egos clashing behind the scenes and Neil still wanting to look respectable.

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PostRe: GBeebies
by Tomous » Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:50 am

He can say difference of opinions but I'm certain sure the biggest issue for Neil was how amateur the whole thing was.

If the channel was being professionally produced and doing good numbers, he wouldn't be leaving.

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PostRe: GBeebies
by Moggy » Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:55 pm

twitter.com/gbnews/status/1438917776018714631



:lol:

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: GBeebies
by Rex Kramer » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:06 pm

Sounds like he's going to be propping up a flyover.

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captain red dog
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PostRe: GBeebies
by captain red dog » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:17 pm

Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:So Andrew Neil appeared on Question Time, and I'm sure he has an NDA against him, but he seemed pretty clear that Gbeebies wanted to go the hard right Fox News style, and he didn't want to be part of it.

I can see a bit of hypocrisy there, he has allowed what most would consider to be far right columnists in The Spectator. He has also appeared only on Farage's show since his departure. However, if a channel is too far right for Andrew Neil, and he, kind of, openly speaks about it, I think we can all safely assume the future direction of Gbeebies.


It's far more than a bit of hypocrisy. Andrew Neil has been a stain on broadcasting and print journalism for decades.

He somehow managed to get a free pass because at election time he'd give the right wing parties some tough questions.

But when you look at the things he's said, the things he's allowed to be published and his whole "GB News will be anti-woke!" thing, it's pretty clear that he is comfortable with the hard/far right.

The difference of opinion here will be a combination of egos clashing behind the scenes and Neil still wanting to look respectable.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt (yes I know I always do this!). I believe he is probably a typical Tory voter, but when it comes to his personal journalism I do believe he can call it down the middle, certainly in terms of broadcast journalism at least (under BBC tight guidelines).

He has however given print space to some pretty unsavoury figures which I totally acknowledge. Personally, I think that's probably a 'sunlight is the best disinfectant' tactic. That's something I personally believe in. I always say the best thing BBC Question Time ever did was have Nick Griffin on, as it showed him up to the be the nasty bigot he was. He was allowed to hang himself and the whole event led to the destruction of the BNP which was immensely good.

However, I do acknowledge it isn't as clear cut as that. It also led to a rise in support for UKIP. There are also bad examples of this tactic like Dave Rubin who started out very much on that route and now is famous for only really showing one extreme side of an argument and pandering to it. Neil could in all honesty be the same, but I'm not sure given he walked away from GB News going the the Fox route.

So yeah the freedom of the press argument I find very strong, but I do acknowledge completely that Neil has never really been made to account for the people he has published. I do find that troubling.

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PostRe: GBeebies
by Moggy » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:29 pm

captain red dog wrote:I'll give him the benefit of the doubt (yes I know I always do this!).


He has however given print space to some pretty unsavoury figures which I totally acknowledge.


You know the sort of thing he has published and allowed to be published. But you'd give him the benefit of the doubt?

Why?

Personally, I think that's probably a 'sunlight is the best disinfectant' tactic. That's something I personally believe in. I always say the best thing BBC Question Time ever did was have Nick Griffin on, as it showed him up to the be the nasty bigot he was. He was allowed to hang himself and the whole event led to the destruction of the BNP which was immensely good.


We've been through this a few times before. The BNP support after Question Time massively increased. And not just for a few days, their vote share was hugely increased for a few years after QT.

What kills off the far right is starving them of oxygen. You cannot debate these fools, it just doesn't work and has never worked.

Fake edit:

Here's our previous conversation on the BNP.

captain red dog wrote:I don't know, call me naive if you will, but the closest we have come in the UK was Nick Griffin on Question Time. Personally I think that was the death nail of the BNP as he was shown as the fascist scum he was.


2005 General Election: BNP votes - 192,746 (0.5%)

2009 Nick Griffin appears on Question Time

2010 General Election: BNP votes - 563,743 (1.9%)

It's a myth that Question Time ended the BNP. The rise of UKIP and BNP infighting is what killed them.

The first opinion poll taken after Nick Griffin's appearance, conducted hours after the programme by YouGov for The Daily Telegraph, indicated that voter support for the BNP had increased by 1%, from 2% to 3%, in the previous month, and that 22% of voters were now "seriously considering" voting BNP in a future local, general or European election — broken down into "definitely", 4%; "probably", 3%; and "possible", 15%.[59] The bookmaker, William Hill, changed its odds on the BNP winning a Westminster seat in the 2010 General Election from 10–1 to 7–2 after the programme.[49] The BNP received 1.9% of the vote in the election and did not win a seat.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Questio ... ontroversy


1.9% put the BNP in 5th place overall in 2010, ahead of the SNP and the Greens.

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PostRe: GBeebies
by Rocsteady » Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:15 am

I remember reading this about the BNP on here multiple times now :lol:

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PostRe: GBeebies
by captain red dog » Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:34 pm

Wow I didn't realise it increased support. So what did lead to the collapse of the BNP? The rise of UKIP or just Griffin's own ineptitude?

Maybe starving the far right of oxygen does work then. I'm still uncomfortable with it though as I feel it leads these organisations to go more underground, not sure if there has been any analysis on that. I wonder whether there has been an increase in the number of far right organisations that have been banned recently for example. I seem to hear much more about far right terrorist style organisations being banned since our anti-terror laws came in after 9/11 for example.

I have seen the names of people Neil has published, not read the articles though. I feel he does need to be more closely questioned. I will say I agree with what he has said in the past about being the chairman of The Spectator, but allowing the editor independence. I can see why that would be considered a cop out though (he isn't going to hire an editor he doesn't agree with politically for example), hence why I think he should be seriously challenged on it.

Apologies Moggy, I just don't have the memory to remember our previous discussion on it. I can barely remember what happened yesterday!

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PostRe: GBeebies
by Moggy » Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:35 pm

captain red dog wrote:Wow I didn't realise it increased support. So what did lead to the collapse of the BNP? The rise of UKIP or just Griffin's own ineptitude?



All of the above plus BNP infighting.

The idea of sunlight being the best disinfectant sounds like it would be correct. But we are not dealing with rational people who debate honestly. Putting these far right arseholes on telly just increases the reach of their message. There's no debate tactic that can stop them increasing their sway.

Look at that Milo character. He was bloody everywhere at one point. TV loved his controversial takes and he was making a fortune out of the controversy. Since he got cut off from any mainstream platforms? He's vanished.

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PostRe: GBeebies
by Moggy » Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:40 pm

captain red dog wrote:
I have seen the names of people Neil has published, not read the articles though. I feel he does need to be more closely questioned. I will say I agree with what he has said in the past about being the chairman of The Spectator, but allowing the editor independence.


As for Neil, I get what you are saying. But, when it comes to the stuff published while he has been chairman? Would you allow yourself to be tainted by that stuff? I'd quit.

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PostRe: GBeebies
by KK » Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:22 pm

Guardian wrote:Rather than merely being on holiday Andrew Neil was locked in an increasingly fierce legal battle with the channel’s bosses from mid-July, with GB News in turmoil as their lead presenter attempted to renegotiate and then exit a four-year contract believed to worth about £700,000 a year.

The chief executive, Angelos Frangopoulos, was overheard at the station’s west London headquarters over the summer cursing Neil’s name and pledging to sue the presenter for millions of pounds over alleged breach of contract.

At the same time, Neil is said to have claimed his reputation had been damaged due to being involved in a botched launch over which he had limited control. The presenter ultimately agreed to walk away without any money in order to get out of the channel, it is understood.

Now, with Rupert Murdoch having signed up Piers Morgan to launch a rival channel, talkTV, staff at GB News are blaming the catastrophic legal battle between Neil and Frangopoulos for distracting from efforts to save the station over the summer. Many fear their station will be swiftly outgunned by a more professional Murdoch product, which at least in part seems to have been launched to exploit GB News’s failures.

The problem for GB News presenters is they may struggle to find jobs elsewhere with similar salaries, with some paid as much as £200,000 a year.

Simon McCoy, who left the BBC to present the GB News breakfast programme, has been overheard multiple times by colleagues openly despairing at his position and mocking the low ratings for his slots co-hosting with Kirsty Gallacher.

Some GB News producers have already made enquiries to see if talkTV will hire them, while dark jokes and gallows humour about the working environment were recently made real when an overworked staff member collapsed in the office.

There is a growing expectation that some of GB News’s current presenters could face the chop, with Frangopoulos interested in putting rightwing YouTubers on air instead, staff at the station believe. A last-ditch big-budget attempt to sign up Morgan as Neil’s replacement failed in August, while Morgan was in negotiations with News UK. Former Sky News presenter Colin Brazier will fill Neil’s prime time 8pm slot.

The channel has instead increasingly turned to prominent Brexit supporters for its hires, with ex-Ukip MEP Patrick O’Flynn suggested as a possible appointment to run its news operation. He did not reply to a request for comment.

While Neil ultimately agreed to remain as a twice-a-week pundit as part of his exit package, this is a temporary measure for the next few months and was designed to limit the public relations damage caused by his departure.

The Guardian has learned Neil began using the services of an employment lawyer in mid-July, less than a month after he launched the channel as lead presenter and chairman of the board. Staff said one issue is that the station never enacted a plan to let him present his show from home studios at his bases in the south of France and New York.

Frangopoulos has now become the undisputed boss at GB News following the departure of experienced programming chief John McAndrew, pushing the channel to the right with Nigel Farage as the flagship presenter. He also retains the backing of the company’s investors, who are perceived to be involved for ideological reasons as much as for financial return. Paul Marshall, the Brexit-backing hedge fund boss whose son used to perform in Mumford & Sons, is a major investor and has told employees he will temporarily replace Neil as chairman of the company’s board.

Viewing figures, emailed around the GB News office every morning, are a constant source of despair, although Farage is performing relatively well in the evenings and the channel continues to push its online offering. However, staff morale remains low, with Frangopolous said to be increasingly bothered by leaks to the press.

“The rightwing Fox News channel [approach] isn’t working and won’t work, [some] presenters are stupid and badly informed, and it wasn’t the right strategy for the channel,” said one individual with knowledge of the channel’s workings.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/ ... om-gb-news

A right bunch o' incompetent buffoons. The only question is how long the backers of this station want to continue pissing their money up the wall, as at no point is GB News ever going to be a success.

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PostRe: GBeebies
by Moggy » Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:02 am

twitter.com/thehistoryguy/status/1440592412217208841



:fp:

I'd imagine after the Wootton show they had to say "And coming up next, the Nigel Farage Show! Nigel is a descendant of Huguenot refugees who came here in the late 1600s. Which proves not all immigration is good"

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PostRe: GBeebies
by Memento Mori » Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:14 am

Seems odd that Dan Wooton who was born in New Zealand is so keen to promote anti-immigration rhetoric.

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PostRe: GBeebies
by Tomous » Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:25 am

Memento Mori wrote:Seems odd that Dan Wooton who was born in New Zealand is so keen to promote anti-immigration rhetoric.



Dan Wootton once ran in the London Marathon for Terrence Higgins Trust. THT is a British charity that campaigns about and provides services relating to HIV and sexual health, and to eradicate stigma and discrimination around HIV.

In 2015, Dan Wootton penned this article for The Sun:

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He's a banana split.

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PostRe: GBeebies
by KK » Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:21 am

twitter.com/afneil/status/1440797569836146690


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Memento Mori
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PostRe: GBeebies
by Memento Mori » Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:56 am

:lol:

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PostRe: GBeebies
by KK » Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:09 am

Started GB News to fight cancel culture only to end up getting cancelled by his own channel, on his own show. Also launched GB News to fight for 'freedom of speech'. Almost immediately leaves GB News so he's allowed to express his freedom of speech.

His 8pm slot has now been replaced by CrAzIer with [Colin] BRAZIER. Not the official title, but as may as well be.

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PostRe: GBeebies
by captain red dog » Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:25 pm

Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
I have seen the names of people Neil has published, not read the articles though. I feel he does need to be more closely questioned. I will say I agree with what he has said in the past about being the chairman of The Spectator, but allowing the editor independence.


As for Neil, I get what you are saying. But, when it comes to the stuff published while he has been chairman? Would you allow yourself to be tainted by that stuff? I'd quit.

Hmm yes I agree with that, you could accept it once as a serious oversight but my benefit of the doubt doesn't stretch to multiple articles.

That said, I think (I've done no research here I admit) The Spectator seems to have a better record recently. So maybe he has asked them to do better in terms of who they publish.

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PostRe: GBeebies
by Moggy » Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:31 pm

captain red dog wrote:That said, I think (I've done no research here I admit) The Spectator seems to have a better record recently. So maybe he has asked them to do better in terms of who they publish.


It was less than a month ago they were pushing the VERY far right idea of the great replacement....

twitter.com/adamrutherford/status/1432640899281035267


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PostRe: GBeebies
by Preezy » Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:10 pm

beware the foreigns!


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