Gillette - is this the best a man can get?

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Rightey
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Rightey » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:39 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
Prototype wrote:I think the reason people are offended by it as it's yet another attack on the perception that all men are creeps by default.

I get more offended by the way women are treated in places like Saudi Arabia than I do about a women being called a girl for example, yes.


This is an extension of the Not All Men argument, commonly interjected into online conversations by women about men.

Before its meteoric rise as an object of mockery in the early parts of 2014, “not all men” had a past life as an object of frustration. For feminist bloggers it was a classic derail, a bad-faith argument used to shift the focus of a discussion instead of engaging with it.

http://time.com/79357/not-all-men-a-bri ... -argument/

The willful misunderstanding of generalised terminology ("men" here) to mean "each and every example falling under this classification" is used as a way of shifting focus. Conversations about the rise of toxic masculinity, rape culture and misogyny become conversations about how offended some men get when someone, anyone, dares attest there are negative aspects of our society's handle on the meaning of maleness.

At no point does the advert insist or even infer that every single man is evil and should be taught a lesson, but it is something easily retrofitted into the message by those with pre-existing insecurities. Although the negative reactions to the advert in here are pleasantly presented niceties compared to the vitriol online, they're still a little sad to see.


Do you want to know how to avoid that situation? You add "some" before "men" in your sentences. It's amazing! There are tons of these words that you can put before a noun to describe them!

Regarding the ad itself, I only ever like funny ones, but this one is definitely doing its job of getting people talking, although I doubt it will be good for the companies bottom line.

Pelloki on ghosts wrote:Just start masturbating furiously. That'll make them go away.

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Rocsteady
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Rocsteady » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:48 pm

I don't even see how it can be viewed as offensive.

Only watched it now was disappointed, wanted it to be crazy controversial. Expected it to be more bluntly accusing all men of being problematic.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Moggy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:49 pm

Rightey wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
Prototype wrote:I think the reason people are offended by it as it's yet another attack on the perception that all men are creeps by default.

I get more offended by the way women are treated in places like Saudi Arabia than I do about a women being called a girl for example, yes.


This is an extension of the Not All Men argument, commonly interjected into online conversations by women about men.

Before its meteoric rise as an object of mockery in the early parts of 2014, “not all men” had a past life as an object of frustration. For feminist bloggers it was a classic derail, a bad-faith argument used to shift the focus of a discussion instead of engaging with it.

http://time.com/79357/not-all-men-a-bri ... -argument/

The willful misunderstanding of generalised terminology ("men" here) to mean "each and every example falling under this classification" is used as a way of shifting focus. Conversations about the rise of toxic masculinity, rape culture and misogyny become conversations about how offended some men get when someone, anyone, dares attest there are negative aspects of our society's handle on the meaning of maleness.

At no point does the advert insist or even infer that every single man is evil and should be taught a lesson, but it is something easily retrofitted into the message by those with pre-existing insecurities. Although the negative reactions to the advert in here are pleasantly presented niceties compared to the vitriol online, they're still a little sad to see.


Do you want to know how to avoid that situation? You add "some" before "men" in your sentences. It's amazing! There are tons of these words that you can put before a noun to describe them!


#alllivesmatter

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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Tafdolphin » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:57 pm

Rightey wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
Prototype wrote:I think the reason people are offended by it as it's yet another attack on the perception that all men are creeps by default.

I get more offended by the way women are treated in places like Saudi Arabia than I do about a women being called a girl for example, yes.


This is an extension of the Not All Men argument, commonly interjected into online conversations by women about men.

Before its meteoric rise as an object of mockery in the early parts of 2014, “not all men” had a past life as an object of frustration. For feminist bloggers it was a classic derail, a bad-faith argument used to shift the focus of a discussion instead of engaging with it.

http://time.com/79357/not-all-men-a-bri ... -argument/

The willful misunderstanding of generalised terminology ("men" here) to mean "each and every example falling under this classification" is used as a way of shifting focus. Conversations about the rise of toxic masculinity, rape culture and misogyny become conversations about how offended some men get when someone, anyone, dares attest there are negative aspects of our society's handle on the meaning of maleness.

At no point does the advert insist or even infer that every single man is evil and should be taught a lesson, but it is something easily retrofitted into the message by those with pre-existing insecurities. Although the negative reactions to the advert in here are pleasantly presented niceties compared to the vitriol online, they're still a little sad to see.


Do you want to know how to avoid that situation? You add "some" before "men" in your sentences. It's amazing! There are tons of these words that you can put before a noun to describe them.


By consciously adding 'some' to statements such as these you would once again be shifting the focus (from the message itself to the couching of that message in 'acceptable' terms). It would also be a pointless appeasement as those offended by such statements would be left with the equally as insipid rebuttal "Which men? Not me!" The same would occur no matter how you worded the statement.

The problem is not the presentation but the interpretation of said statement by those unwilling to listen.

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Rightey
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Rightey » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:00 pm

Moggy wrote:
Rightey wrote:
Do you want to know how to avoid that situation? You add "some" before "men" in your sentences. It's amazing! There are tons of these words that you can put before a noun to describe them!


#alllivesmatter


[Insert name of group that includes millions of people] are bad and comit crimes.

Or

Some members of [Insert name of group that includes millions of people] are bad and comit crimes.

See the difference here?

Pelloki on ghosts wrote:Just start masturbating furiously. That'll make them go away.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Moggy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:03 pm

Rightey wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Rightey wrote:
Do you want to know how to avoid that situation? You add "some" before "men" in your sentences. It's amazing! There are tons of these words that you can put before a noun to describe them!


#alllivesmatter


[Insert name of group that includes millions of people] are bad and comit crimes.

Or

Some members of [Insert name of group that includes millions of people] are bad and comit crimes.

See the difference here?


I know the difference. I’m just not upset that a privileged group sometimes gets lumped together. How sensitive do you have to be to get upset by people saying “men” instead of “some men”?

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Tafdolphin
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Tafdolphin » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:04 pm

Rightey wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Rightey wrote:
Do you want to know how to avoid that situation? You add "some" before "men" in your sentences. It's amazing! There are tons of these words that you can put before a noun to describe them!


#alllivesmatter


[Insert name of group that includes millions of people] are bad and comit crimes.

Or

Some members of [Insert name of group that includes millions of people] are bad and comit crimes.

See the difference here?


Please, please read my post before posting again yourself ktnx

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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Corazon de Leon » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:14 pm

Rocsteady wrote:I don't even see how it can be viewed as offensive.

Only watched it now was disappointed, wanted it to be crazy controversial. Expected it to be more bluntly accusing all men of being problematic.


Yeah I watched it after reading all the hoo-hah and thought it was really dull. :lol:

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Rightey
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Rightey » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:16 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
By consciously adding 'some' to statements such as these you would once again be shifting the focus (from the message itself to the couching of that message in 'acceptable' terms). It would also be a pointless appeasement as those offended by such statements would be left with the equally as insipid rebuttal "Which men? Not me!" The same would occur no matter how you worded the statement.

The problem is not the presentation but the interpretation of said statement by those unwilling to listen.


1) I don't know what field the study of toxic masculinity would fall under, but if it's a serious academic field it should strive for accuracy. If its main goal is to promote a message and can't risk being focused through the use of accurate terminology (like "some") then it's merely propaganda.

2) If the same would occur no matter how you worded the statement, once again you should reach the conclusion that it would be best to use "some" as not to alienate those who might be open to your ideas, but would feel like they are being attacked if you use blanket terminology.

Pelloki on ghosts wrote:Just start masturbating furiously. That'll make them go away.

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Tafdolphin
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Tafdolphin » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:22 pm

Rightey wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
By consciously adding 'some' to statements such as these you would once again be shifting the focus (from the message itself to the couching of that message in 'acceptable' terms). It would also be a pointless appeasement as those offended by such statements would be left with the equally as insipid rebuttal "Which men? Not me!" The same would occur no matter how you worded the statement.

The problem is not the presentation but the interpretation of said statement by those unwilling to listen.


1) I don't know what field the study of toxic masculinity would fall under, but if it's a serious academic field it should strive for accuracy. If its main goal is to promote a message and can't risk being focused through the use of accurate terminology (like "some") then it's merely propaganda.

2) If the same would occur no matter how you worded the statement, once again you should reach the conclusion that it would be best to use "some" as not to alienate those who might be open to your ideas, but would feel like they are being attacked if you use blanket terminology.


I started writing an involved reply then realised you're never going to listen and that there will always be an argument about how men should be treated with kid gloves whilst they themselves ride roughshod over ever other demographic without recrimination so here, here's something pretty for you to look at:

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SEP
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by SEP » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:26 pm

Rightey wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Rightey wrote:
Do you want to know how to avoid that situation? You add "some" before "men" in your sentences. It's amazing! There are tons of these words that you can put before a noun to describe them!


#alllivesmatter


[Insert name of group that includes millions of people] are bad and comit crimes.

Or

Some members of [Insert name of group that includes millions of people] are bad and comit crimes.

See the difference here?


twitter.com/Joannechocolat/status/1085110851663740928


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Victor Mildew
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Victor Mildew » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:27 pm

Imagine upsetting upset about an advert.

Hexx wrote:Ad7 is older and balder than I thought.
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Moggy
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Moggy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:28 pm

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:
Rightey wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Rightey wrote:
Do you want to know how to avoid that situation? You add "some" before "men" in your sentences. It's amazing! There are tons of these words that you can put before a noun to describe them!


#alllivesmatter


[Insert name of group that includes millions of people] are bad and comit crimes.

Or

Some members of [Insert name of group that includes millions of people] are bad and comit crimes.

See the difference here?


twitter.com/Joannechocolat/status/1085110851663740928



:lol:

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Moggy
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Moggy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:29 pm

Ad7 wrote:Imagine upsetting upset about an advert.


I almost choked on my MEAT sausage roll. :x

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Cyburn2
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Cyburn2 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:32 pm

The phrase "Go Woke Get Broke" could apply here, but people will still buy Gillette razors, despite being expensive as strawberry float.

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Cuttooth » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:53 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:The problem is not the presentation but the interpretation of said statement by those unwilling to listen.

Absolutely. This isn't helped by those who consider themselves part of a sensible centre-ground who will always criticise the actions and opinions of the left more heavily and readily than those of the right. Especially when they also convince themselves they are holding "both sides" to the same standards despite this rarely being true, nor realising (as an admittedly blunt generalisation) they naturally have much more in common socially with the right than the left.

This has an effect on the social discourse. Like how recently a new Congresswoman in America called Trump a mummy strawberry floater who they're going to impeach. This was met with outrage and much coverage. Steve King's comments regarding white nationalism and white supremacy were not quite.

A centre so much more easily swayed to an oppressive right (that upholds the centre's privileges) because of a minor 'uncivil' comment or action of a body on the left isn't really the centre.

Anyway, watched the ad. It's alright, maybe a bit cringey. I wonder if it'll 'degammonise' Gillette's brand like the Nike Kaepernick campaign did.

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KK
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by KK » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:58 pm

Cyburn2 wrote:The phrase "Go Woke Get Broke" could apply here, but people will still buy Gillette razors, despite being expensive as strawberry float.

I have been reliably informed by a number of people the Philips Oneblade is very good, but as I currently have enough Gillette razor blades to last until 2020 I shan’t be trying it myself any time soon.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Moggy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:11 pm

Cyburn2 wrote:The phrase "Go Woke Get Broke" could apply here, but people will still buy Gillette razors, despite being expensive as strawberry float.


It could, but Nike would suggest that just because a phrase rhymes, it might not be true in these times.

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massimo
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by massimo » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:30 pm

Oh my Christ! I did not know this was a thing.

I saw a friends tweet earlier about him never buying any Gillette blades again (even though he has a beard), so I had to check in with him after watching the video to see if he’d written it and not proof read it, assuming it was a typo. Nope.
After asking him if he was smoking crack, I made a comment about not worrying what Piers Morgan thinks, as a joke. And now I find out he really is offended. Turns out Piers is still a banana split.

If men are offended by this, some of you are twats.
Not really, you’re all twats.

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: Gillette - is this the best a man can get?
by Knoyleo » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:46 pm

twitter.com/9_volt_/status/1085277143507050498



Advert's fine, it's another corporate marketing piece that coopts progressive talking points to generate coverage, but it's still good to have that discourse out there.

If it seriously bothers you, you need to get in the bin.

pjbetman wrote:That's the stupidest thing ive ever read on here i think.

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