Good Job, Microsoft

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **Rik** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:14 am

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:Given that the entire design of the console has changed, and the SKUs have altered so many times since 2005, it's not a huge leap to expect that extra 3.75GB of space to be usable for something.

It is, storing data.

Yungstar 2006 wrote:
Rik wrote:
Somebody Else's Problem wrote: Still, this thread has merely served to show once more just how much of a fanboy Rik really is. Yes, he buys other consoles, but his heart belongs to Microsoft.

Bollocks.

The situation is clear, EVERYONE knows as it has been a stick to beat the 360 with since 2005 that the Arcade cheapest 360 has no HDD, it was called the Tard pack, how apt in this case

i thought the situation was very clear. suzz and his SDF can take the piss out of 360 as much as they like. but if you point out the obvious..... BAN BAN BAN BAN threats.

Exactly, I could understand if it was a new thing like the PS3 used to play PS2 games/Linux and now it doesn't :lol:

However what we're talking about has been the case for FIVE YEARS.......and I'm a "wanker" and should be banned for pointing that out......

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **andretmzt** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:15 am

Irene Demova wrote:
andretmzt wrote:I reckon we should tell BBC Watchdog, that way we'll sort the problem out and get some coverage for ourselves

We might even get another song like their appalling PS3 one

Holy gooseberry fool, just watched it. Let's not do it :lol:

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **TheTurnipKing** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:16 am

suzzopher wrote:
Rik wrote: if Sony announced a 4gb PS3 today you'd think eh?

I'd think, "are there any games that could run on a 4gb machine?" But the difference is the PS3 game boxes clearly state how much HDD space is needed for a game. Microsoft have strawberry floated up with this release. Not just Reach either, ODST which was released a year ago is the same. The Arcade should make consumers aware they are purchasing a gimped 360. There are no excuses.

What's even more surprising is that USB added storage space DOES NOT RECTIFY the problem, even if it is reasonably capacious compared to the old 20gb hard drive. For some reason it has to be a hard drive.

I'd be interested to know the justification for this.

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **Drej** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:17 am

Rik wrote:
Somebody Else's Problem wrote: Still, this thread has merely served to show once more just how much of a fanboy Rik really is. Yes, he buys other consoles, but his heart belongs to Microsoft.

Bollocks.

The situation is clear, EVERYONE knows as it has been a stick to beat the 360 with since 2005 that the Arcade cheapest 360 has no HDD, it was called the Tard pack, how apt in this case

The memory bundled with the Arcade model has changed from none, to 64mb external, to 256mb internal and now to 4gb internal. So the amount has been upgraded at least 3 times in the last five years.

There have always been certain games that didn't work at all or had features restricted if you didn't have a HDD, including some co-op and backwards compatability, this has previously been very clear on the box (Crackdown, Burnout Paradise).

I would say that it ISN'T clear on the Halo Reach Box and that is wrong and I don't know why they have changed it.

As for not knowing the Arcade model didn't have a HDD and expecting a 4gb HDD in a new machine in 2010 well that's a mix of not doing your homework and a bit of stupidity, if Sony announced a 4gb PS3 today you'd think eh?

We're talking about a situation that has applied to the Arcade model for 5 years, so that's why I'm surprised people who frequent a Games Forum aren't aware of this, how this makes me a "wanker" I'm not sure but not surprised the mods let that one slip.

So yes the box of the game should be more clear and before you buy something you should do some research that the product does what you want.

It does however raise questions about where the console industry is headed. The main selling point of a console as some forumites pointed earlier is the plug and play factor. You buy the console and play its games on it with the graphical limitations that come with it.

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **Christopher** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:19 am

Yungstar 2006 wrote:
Rik wrote:
Somebody Else's Problem wrote: Still, this thread has merely served to show once more just how much of a fanboy Rik really is. Yes, he buys other consoles, but his heart belongs to Microsoft.

Bollocks.

The situation is clear, EVERYONE knows as it has been a stick to beat the 360 with since 2005 that the Arcade cheapest 360 has no HDD, it was called the Tard pack, how apt in this case

i thought the situation was very clear. suzz and his SDF can take the piss out of 360 as much as they like. but if you point out the obvious..... BAN BAN BAN BAN threats.

The ban threat was for Rik trying to ignite a console war again. I think Jiggles has actually told quite a few of us here something we didn't know. Which is that the biggest 360 game of the year does not run on all 360's and there is no major warnings on either game or console to show this. It is frankly wrong. This is nothing like Linux or PS2 bc being taken away, as Rik tried to make out earlier. It is how ever the same as Sony releasing a HDD-Less PS3. As a majority of games simply wouldn't work that you would expect to work.

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **Rik** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:19 am

suzzopher wrote:
Rik wrote: if Sony announced a 4gb PS3 today you'd think eh?

I'd think, "are there any games that could run on a 4gb machine?" But the difference is the PS3 game boxes clearly state how much HDD space is needed for a game. Microsoft have strawberry floated up with this release. Not just Reach either, ODST which was released a year ago is the same. The Arcade should make consumers aware they are purchasing a gimped 360. There are no excuses.

It's been called the "tard" pack for five years, it says (in small print) that certain features need additional hardware on the console box, it should be clearer on the game box you need a HDD though which is the problem. ODST like you say is a year old but nobody on this forum mentioned this before......what does that say.

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **Rik** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:20 am

Which is that the biggest 360 game of the year does not run on all 360's

That is a lie, some features don't work without a HDD the game does "run"

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **Christopher** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:23 am

Rik wrote:
Which is that the biggest 360 game of the year does not run on all 360's

That is a lie, some features don't work without a HDD the game does "run"

It doesn't run as advertised then. Stop trying to defend this Rik, the new Arcade 360 does not do a good job of showing that the 4gb on the box will not work with some games/features. You can try and spin this "five years long" gooseberry fool all you want, but you are fighting it alone. Notice how it isn't just the so called SDF arguing with you? It's the entire forum(bar Youngstar).

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **CrystalGipsy** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:24 am

TheTurnipKing wrote:
suzzopher wrote:
Rik wrote: if Sony announced a 4gb PS3 today you'd think eh?

I'd think, "are there any games that could run on a 4gb machine?" But the difference is the PS3 game boxes clearly state how much HDD space is needed for a game. Microsoft have ****** up with this release. Not just Reach either, ODST which was released a year ago is the same. The Arcade should make consumers aware they are purchasing a gimped 360. There are no excuses.

What's even more surprising is that USB added storage space DOES NOT RECTIFY the problem, even if it is reasonably capacious compared to the old 20gb hard drive. For some reason it has to be a hard drive.

I'd be interested to know the justification for this.

So they can sell more of their overprice hard drives. This thread is getting out of hand. MS should clearly have labled REACH saying it needed HDD that is the only issue here. MS have never stated that the 4GB storage was a HDD so why do people assume it is? Same goes with the reverse argument as well. Looks like they need to market all their packaging more clearly but I guess they have found a loop hole that lets them getaway with it. Funny thing is ODST has been out a year and nothing was raised or moaned about then from Arcader users that I remember.

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **satriales** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:24 am

Rik wrote:There have always been certain games that didn't work at all or had features restricted if you didn't have a HDD, including some co-op and backwards compatability, this has previously been very clear on the box (Crackdown, Burnout Paradise).

I would say that it ISN'T clear on the Halo Reach Box and that is wrong and I don't know why they have changed it.

As for not knowing the Arcade model didn't have a HDD and expecting a 4gb HDD in a new machine in 2010 well that's a mix of not doing your homework and a bit of stupidity, if Sony announced a 4gb PS3 today you'd think eh?

We're talking about a situation that has applied to the Arcade model for 5 years, so that's why I'm surprised people who frequent a Games Forum aren't aware of this, how this makes me a "wanker" I'm not sure but not surprised the mods let that one slip.

So yes the box of the game should be more clear and before you buy something you should do some reserach that the product does what you want.

Firstly the issue of whether the 4GB is a 2.5" HDD or flash memory is only part of the problem. The 4GB model is advertised as having 4GB of storage and so you'd expect it to be used in the same way as a HDD. As far as I'm aware there is no technical reason why it couldn't be used in the same way as a HDD.

So that 4GB is flash memory, does that mean all of the new consoles also have 4GB of flash memory? If so why aren't they advertising the 250GB as a 254GB console?

Saying that people would be suspicious of a 4GB PS3 is a silly argument as the PS3 has always had a HDD of 20GB or more so a 4GB one would be a big step down and obvious that it wasn't a standard HDD. With the 360 there has always been a model without a HDD and so the cheap model now having a 4GB HDD seems like a step in the right direction.

It wouldn't matter how much research you did, as before it's release nobody had mentioned that the 4GB 360 would not be able to play co-op in reach. There are many posts on gaf from people surprised by the problem and supposedly many people on the bungie forums with the same issue (I couldn't work how to search their forums).

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **TheTurnipKing** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:25 am

As far as I can tell, there's no REASON a 360 with 4gb of storage shouldn't work perfectly well for these games. The problem seems to be the way the 4GB is implemented... As a memory unit, rather than as a hard drive.

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **Christopher** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:28 am

CrystalGipsy wrote:
TheTurnipKing wrote:
suzzopher wrote:
Rik wrote: if Sony announced a 4gb PS3 today you'd think eh?

I'd think, "are there any games that could run on a 4gb machine?" But the difference is the PS3 game boxes clearly state how much HDD space is needed for a game. Microsoft have ****** up with this release. Not just Reach either, ODST which was released a year ago is the same. The Arcade should make consumers aware they are purchasing a gimped 360. There are no excuses.

What's even more surprising is that USB added storage space DOES NOT RECTIFY the problem, even if it is reasonably capacious compared to the old 20gb hard drive. For some reason it has to be a hard drive.

I'd be interested to know the justification for this.

So they can sell more of their overprice hard drives. This thread is getting out of hand. MS should clearly have labled REACH saying it needed HDD that is the only issue here. MS have never stated that the 4GB storage was a HDD so why do people assume it is? Same goes with the reverse argument as well. Looks like they need to market all their packaging more clearly but I guess they have found a loop hole that lets them getaway with it. Funny thing is ODST has been out a year and nothing was raised or moaned about then from Arcader users that I remember.

The old Arcade box clearly states that certain online features require a HDD. The new one does not and doesn't even distinguish what the 4gb of storage of the product information.

Reach, ODST and any others that require the game to work as expected should have the symbol on it like this game:

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **SEP** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:28 am

TheTurnipKing wrote:
suzzopher wrote:
Rik wrote: if Sony announced a 4gb PS3 today you'd think eh?

I'd think, "are there any games that could run on a 4gb machine?" But the difference is the PS3 game boxes clearly state how much HDD space is needed for a game. Microsoft have strawberry floated up with this release. Not just Reach either, ODST which was released a year ago is the same. The Arcade should make consumers aware they are purchasing a gimped 360. There are no excuses.

What's even more surprising is that USB added storage space DOES NOT RECTIFY the problem, even if it is reasonably capacious compared to the old 20gb hard drive. For some reason it has to be a hard drive.

I'd be interested to know the justification for this.

£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **Death's Head** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:30 am

Sounds like a bit of a mountain out of a mole hill to me. However, given the 360s is the latest 360 (regardless of whether its got a hard drive or not) and Halo Reach is the latest game, its not unreasonable to expect them to work together without reading all of the small print. MS and shops should make it clear that not all 360 games will work on the 4GB model - the normal person on the street would not know this, but MS/shops probably know this will lose sales so don't want to advertise the fact.

Most interesting comment from the whole topic is this:

Rik wrote:How is it trolling to point out the obvious.

If you're going to spend a couple of hundred quid on something then at least do your homework on what you're buying

So Rik, bearing in mind you have bought several PS3 and then whinged constantly about features being removed, games not running as well as 360 games etc, can you explain why the above logic needs to apply to purchases relating to 360s but not to PS3s? I mean, you did your homework right? Are you a hypocrit or just one of the world's biggest 360 fanboys?

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **TheTurnipKing** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:31 am

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:
TheTurnipKing wrote:
suzzopher wrote:
Rik wrote: if Sony announced a 4gb PS3 today you'd think eh?

I'd think, "are there any games that could run on a 4gb machine?" But the difference is the PS3 game boxes clearly state how much HDD space is needed for a game. Microsoft have strawberry floated up with this release. Not just Reach either, ODST which was released a year ago is the same. The Arcade should make consumers aware they are purchasing a gimped 360. There are no excuses.

What's even more surprising is that USB added storage space DOES NOT RECTIFY the problem, even if it is reasonably capacious compared to the old 20gb hard drive. For some reason it has to be a hard drive.

I'd be interested to know the justification for this.

£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

It doesn't really explain the expense that must nessiarilly be incurred as a result of bringing a second SKU to market, and then the need to sell hard drives to your now angry consumer base... hard drives which currently aren't available.

There's basically no need for the 4gb console to be considered "gimped" at all. 4GB is "big enough" to viably use most of the 360's functions, just so long as you don't want to be able to use it for everything at once.

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **Photek** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:33 am

Yungstar 2006 wrote:i thought the situation was very clear. suzz and his SDF can take the piss out of 360 as much as they like. but if you point out the obvious..... BAN BAN BAN BAN threats.

This.

I miss you fishy. :cry:

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **SEP** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:35 am

TheTurnipKing wrote:It doesn't really explain the expense that must nessiarilly be incurred as a result of bringing a second SKU to market, and then the need to sell hard drives to your now angry consumer base... hard drives which currently aren't available.

Because when the hard drive does come (after people have bought into the Arcade and realised their mistake), it'll cost way more than it's actually worth, which means profit for Microsoft.

They're just waiting for people to buy into the Arcade first.

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **Christopher** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:36 am

Why is this being turned into a console war argument again :fp:

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **satriales** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:36 am

Rik wrote:
Somebody Else's Problem wrote:Given that the entire design of the console has changed, and the SKUs have altered so many times since 2005, it's not a huge leap to expect that extra 3.75GB of space to be usable for something.

It is, storing data.

Unless that data is the co-op mode of Halo reach?

While the internal flash memory of the 360 has increased over the years the whole point of consoles is that you can buy a game and it will work. So the basic hardware does not change much over the years, they don't add more RAM or a faster CPU as any games that used it would not work on the older machines. So when a 360 is released with 4GB of flash memory it would be reasonable to assume that no more than 64MB is actually required to run a game as older 360s only had 64MB. The rest of that 4GB should for all intents and purposes be the same as a 4GB HDD.

PostRe: Good Job, Microsoft by **Beans** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:40 am

Different SKU's are just confusing.

Nintendo did the right thing by only having 1 Wii Sku.

Good Job, Microsoft

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