GR Decides - Tory Leadership

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Who should be the new Tory leader?

Michael Gove
1
2%
Matt Hancock
3
7%
Mark Harper
0
No votes
Jeremy Hunt
6
13%
Sajid Javid
4
9%
Boris Johnson
10
22%
Andrea Leadsom
0
No votes
Esther McVey
1
2%
Dominic Raab
1
2%
Rory Stewart
20
43%
 
Total votes: 46
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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by Herdanos » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:58 pm

It has to be Boris now. Hunt voted Remain, it'd give the idiots a chance to blame Brexit being utterly gooseberry fool on something other than Brexit itself.

Boris is steeped in Leave, he's undeniably Brexit, the Tory Farage. Let's let them own their gooseberry fool for a change.

Then once it's obvious that their idiocy will irrevocably shaft the nation, hopefully it'll be the death knell for the right wingers, Brexiteers and Conservative Party, and we can start trying to become a country that cares about its people and about limiting suffering, not one that exclusively focuses on allowing the wealthy to become wealthier.

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by Rex Kramer » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:01 pm

There is literally no chance at all of this happening. It'll always be someone else's fault.

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by OrangeRKN » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:01 pm

I can still see Johnson becoming PM and then u-turning on Brexit because he doesn't want delivering it as his legacy

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by KK » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:02 pm

YouGov:

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by KK » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:31 pm

One of the Conservative party’s most generous donors has joined a growing chorus of demands for Boris Johnson to explain why police were called to his home after an altercation with his partner.

John Griffin, the taxi tycoon who has given £4m to the Tories over the last six years, has expressed concerns about the morality of the favourite to become prime minister and called on him to explain the circumstances of a furious row with his partner, Carrie Symonds.

His comments follow demands from Johnson’s leadership rival, Jeremy Hunt, fellow cabinet ministers and Tory backbenchers for the former London mayor to answer questions about his past behaviour amid growing concerns about his character.

Asked about Johnson’s responsibilities before the Conservative party chooses a new leader next month, Griffin, the Tories’ second biggest donor, told the Guardian he should explain exactly what had happened.

“We deserve an explanation about that row, and he has to handle it properly. He can’t assume that we are going to support him when he has not explained every detail,” he said.

“It is likely that he is going to become the PM and most members want to support him. But if I did anything wrong, I would need to explain. Because he hasn’t, it is a real worry.”

Griffin, a Brexiter and founder of the cab firm Addison Lee, expressed concerns about Johnson’s morality and said he should also come clean about his previous behaviour, including his responsibilities to his children.

Johnson has four children by his former wife, Marina Wheeler, and a child with a woman with whom he had an affair. However, he has been dogged by unproven claims that he has at least one more child. Johnson has refused to comment.

Griffin, who stood down as chairman of Addison Lee in 2014, said: “Each of his children need his love and attention. But he needs to show that he has given it to them. He cannot say that it is irrelevant. It is highly relevant. It is one of the ways you measure a person.

“He may very well be the best father ever, but he needs to tell us about it. It is a fair question,” he said.

Griffin also called for Johnson to address allegations that he had had extramarital affairs and had mistreated women in those relationships.

“We need to know if he can be trusted because he will get even more attention from women if he becomes PM. I would be concerned if he went marauding around, taking advantage of women by using his position. It would not be right at all,” he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... xplain-row

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by Hexx » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:42 pm

If Money's getting involved it might actually affect something now

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by KK » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:54 pm

Max Hastings, former editor of the Daily Telegraph (you know, when it was a respected newspaper) and Evening Standard eviscerates Boris Johnson:

The Tory party is about to foist a tasteless joke upon the British people. He cares for nothing but his own fame and gratification

Six years ago, the Cambridge historian Christopher Clark published a study of the outbreak of the first world war, titled The Sleepwalkers. Though Clark is a fine scholar, I was unconvinced by his title, which suggested that the great powers stumbled mindlessly to disaster. On the contrary, the maddest aspect of 1914 was that each belligerent government convinced itself that it was acting rationally.

It would be fanciful to liken the ascent of Boris Johnson to the outbreak of global war, but similar forces are in play. There is room for debate about whether he is a scoundrel or mere rogue, but not much about his moral bankruptcy, rooted in a contempt for truth. Nonetheless, even before the Conservative national membership cheers him in as our prime minister – denied the option of Nigel Farage, whom some polls suggest they would prefer – Tory MPs have thronged to do just that.

I have known Johnson since the 1980s, when I edited the Daily Telegraph and he was our flamboyant Brussels correspondent. I have argued for a decade that, while he is a brilliant entertainer who made a popular maître d’ for London as its mayor, he is unfit for national office, because it seems he cares for no interest save his own fame and gratification.

Tory MPs have launched this country upon an experiment in celebrity government, matching that taking place in Ukraine and the US, and it is unlikely to be derailed by the latest headlines. The Washington columnist George Will observes that Donald Trump does what his political base wants “by breaking all the china”. We can’t predict what a Johnson government will do, because its prospective leader has not got around to thinking about this. But his premiership will almost certainly reveal a contempt for rules, precedent, order and stability.

A few admirers assert that, in office, Johnson will reveal an accession of wisdom and responsibility that have hitherto eluded him, not least as foreign secretary. This seems unlikely, as the weekend’s stories emphasised. Dignity still matters in public office, and Johnson will never have it. Yet his graver vice is cowardice, reflected in a willingness to tell any audience, whatever he thinks most likely to please, heedless of the inevitability of its contradiction an hour later.

Like many showy personalities, he is of weak character. I recently suggested to a radio audience that he supposes himself to be Winston Churchill, while in reality being closer to Alan Partridge. Churchill, for all his wit, was a profoundly serious human being. Far from perceiving anything glorious about standing alone in 1940, he knew that all difficult issues must be addressed with allies and partners.

Churchill’s self-obsession was tempered by a huge compassion for humanity, or at least white humanity, which Johnson confines to himself. He has long been considered a bully, prone to making cheap threats. My old friend Christopher Bland, when chairman of the BBC, once described to me how he received an angry phone call from Johnson, denouncing the corporation’s “gross intrusion upon my personal life” for its coverage of one of his love affairs.

“We know plenty about your personal life that you would not like to read in the Spectator,” the then editor of the magazine told the BBC’s chairman, while demanding he order the broadcaster to lay off his own dalliances.

Bland told me he replied: “Boris, think about what you have just said. There is a word for it, and it is not a pretty one.”

He said Johnson blustered into retreat, but in my own files I have handwritten notes from our possible next prime minister, threatening dire consequences in print if I continued to criticise him.

Johnson would not recognise truth, whether about his private or political life, if confronted by it in an identity parade. In a commonplace book the other day, I came across an observation made in 1750 by a contemporary savant, Bishop Berkeley: “It is impossible that a man who is false to his friends and neighbours should be true to the public.” Almost the only people who think Johnson a nice guy are those who do not know him.

There is, of course, a symmetry between himself and Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn is far more honest, but harbours his own extravagant delusions. He may yet prove to be the only possible Labour leader whom Johnson can defeat in a general election. If the opposition was led by anybody else, the Tories would be deservedly doomed, because we would all vote for it. As it is, the Johnson premiership could survive for three or four years, shambling from one embarrassment and debacle to another, of which Brexit may prove the least.

For many of us, his elevation will signal Britain’s abandonment of any claim to be a serious country. It can be claimed that few people realised what a poor prime minister Theresa May would prove until they saw her in Downing Street. With Boris, however, what you see now is almost assuredly what we shall get from him as ruler of Britain.

We can scarcely strip the emperor’s clothes from a man who has built a career, or at least a lurid love life, out of strutting without them. The weekend stories of his domestic affairs are only an aperitif for his future as Britain’s leader. I have a hunch that Johnson will come to regret securing the prize for which he has struggled so long, because the experience of the premiership will lay bare his absolute unfitness for it.

If the Johnson family had stuck to showbusiness like the Osmonds, Marx Brothers or von Trapp family, the world would be a better place. Yet the Tories, in their terror, have elevated a cavorting charlatan to the steps of Downing Street, and they should expect to pay a full forfeit when voters get the message. If the price of Johnson proves to be Corbyn, blame will rest with the Conservative party, which is about to foist a tasteless joke upon the British people – who will not find it funny for long.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ty-britain

This isn’t a one off either, people like Michael Portillo have crapped all over Johnson’s character for years too.

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by Moggy » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:33 pm

THE ONLY TRUE GAMER wrote:It has to be Boris now. Hunt voted Remain, it'd give the idiots a chance to blame Brexit being utterly gooseberry fool on something other than Brexit itself.

Boris is steeped in Leave, he's undeniably Brexit, the Tory Farage. Let's let them own their gooseberry fool for a change.


Oddly I think you are wrong there but you’re still right.

Boris Johnson was Remain right up until the referendum campaigns began. Then he weighed up his pro-EU tendencies against his pro-Boris tendencies. He figured that leading a glorious failed Leave campaign would be his best bet. He might lose but it’d soon have been forgotten by Remainers and Leavers would love him for it. Unfortunately for him he ended up winning and is now forced to go harder and harder towards winning Leavers.

Jeremy Hunt was Remain but I think he genuinely believes in taking us out of the EU now. Unlike Johnson he doesn’t have the Leave baggage and so can go for a deal, rather than the chaos of no deal.

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by Denster » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:47 am

A few admirers assert that, in office, Johnson will reveal an accession of wisdom and responsibility that have hitherto eluded him, not least as foreign secretary. This seems unlikely, as the weekend’s stories emphasised. Dignity still matters in public office, and Johnson will never have it. Yet his graver vice is cowardice, reflected in a willingness to tell any audience, whatever he thinks most likely to please, heedless of the inevitability of its contradiction an hour later.


Copied from the post above. This is a key point. Will he (given the chance) demonstrate the former and repay the faith his supporters have in him or will he continue to demonstrate that the latter is a spot on assessment of him?

That is a burning question for a lot of the people who wil be voting. Myself included.

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by Tafdolphin » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:06 am

People said almost exactly the same thing about Trump. Both Noam Chomsky and Werner Herzog claimed the Presidency would shape Trump, not the other way around.

That worked out well. Arrogant, privileged men who exist purely to further their own legacy aren't constrained by such roles as they seem to genuinely believe they are special and that the rules do not apply.

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by Lex-Man » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:22 am

Denster wrote:A few admirers assert that, in office, Johnson will reveal an accession of wisdom and responsibility that have hitherto eluded him, not least as foreign secretary. This seems unlikely, as the weekend’s stories emphasised. Dignity still matters in public office, and Johnson will never have it. Yet his graver vice is cowardice, reflected in a willingness to tell any audience, whatever he thinks most likely to please, heedless of the inevitability of its contradiction an hour later.


Copied from the post above. This is a key point. Will he (given the chance) demonstrate the former and repay the faith his supporters have in him or will he continue to demonstrate that the latter is a spot on assessment of him?

That is a burning question for a lot of the people who wil be voting. Myself included.


I think he'll do the latter. Weirdly it could work out for him as he'll be able to use his personality to win round his supporters even if he's doing the exact opposite of what they want.

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by satriales » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:26 am

I'm hoping for Boris now, I think Hunt is slightly more competent and has a chance of actually delivering a no deal Brexit. Boris is going to cause a vote of no confidence sooner and could finally give us a general election.

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by Squinty » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:47 am

I seen part of that BBC interview. The guy is completely out of depth.

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by Moggy » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:47 am

If you look at Johnson's life, from school up to today, then it is pretty clear that he is never going to change.

It shows just what a bad place the Tory party is in as the only plus (from a Tory point of view) points anybody can mention are that he is entertaining, that he is the only person capable of beating Corbyn or that he will go through with a hard Brexit.

Entertaining? That's fine when he is a backbench MP showing up to do his bumbling act on Have I Got News For You. Not so great when he is the leader of the entire country.

The only one who can beat Corbyn? I think that might actually be true, but that is far more damning on every single other Tory than it is a plus point to Johnson.

Brexit? I think my feelings on Brexit are well known, but Johnson will do one of two things here. Either he will gooseberry fool himself and try and get May's deal through. This will fail (as it did for May) but will destroy the Tory party in the process as Brexit supporting Tories leave the party in droves. Or he will push forward with a hard, no deal Brexit, which will destroy the country and probably take the Tory party down with it.

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by Squinty » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:58 am

That bit where they talked about his pledge of leaving in Halloween in the interview, I'm not fully convinced by his answer to that. His whole body language shifted as well.

I think he will do the former. The interview confirmed that in part by him saying that he would like to keep certain parts of the WA. He'll gooseberry fool himself.

Last edited by Squinty on Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by Lex-Man » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:58 am

Moggy wrote:If you look at Johnson's life, from school up to today, then it is pretty clear that he is never going to change.

It shows just what a bad place the Tory party is in as the only plus (from a Tory point of view) points anybody can mention are that he is entertaining, that he is the only person capable of beating Corbyn or that he will go through with a hard Brexit.

Entertaining? That's fine when he is a backbench MP showing up to do his bumbling act on Have I Got News For You. Not so great when he is the leader of the entire country.

The only one who can beat Corbyn? I think that might actually be true, but that is far more damning on every single other Tory than it is a plus point to Johnson.

Brexit? I think my feelings on Brexit are well known, but Johnson will do one of two things here. Either he will gooseberry fool himself and try and get May's deal through. This will fail (as it did for May) but will destroy the Tory party in the process as Brexit supporting Tories leave the party in droves. Or he will push forward with a hard, no deal Brexit, which will destroy the country and probably take the Tory party down with it.


I think the Corbyn thing is a bit of a red herring. Most people could beat Corbyn. May managed it while running one of the worst election campaigns in history.

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by Rex Kramer » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:00 am

What I don't understand is the faith the ERG are putting in for Johnson. Everyone knows he's a duplicitous strawberry floater who would sell out pretty much anyone to further himself. Why do they think he's going to deliver on anything he says?

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by Moggy » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:23 am

Lex-Man wrote:I think the Corbyn thing is a bit of a red herring. Most people could beat Corbyn. May managed it while running one of the worst election campaigns in history.


I think that was true in 2017 when May was still being touted as the new Iron Lady, when she was shouting "Brexit means Brexit" and when she went to scowl at the House of Lords.

But things change quickly. Leavers have gone from wanting a Norway style deal to demanding WTO only rules. Half the Tory MPs are looked at as betrayers by Leavers, Hunt is definitely one of them.

The Tories will lose a bucket load of votes if somebody like Hunt is in charge as the Leavers will see him as Maybot 2.0. With the Brexit Party there ready and willing to scoop those votes up.

Johnson will not have that baggage if he takes over and if he pushes a hard Brexit agenda. As much as I dislike Johnson he is possibly the only person to save us from Farage gaining a lot of seats. But as he will do it by acting like Farage, Johnson can strawberry float off imo.

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by Moggy » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:23 am

Rex Kramer wrote:What I don't understand is the faith the ERG are putting in for Johnson. Everyone knows he's a duplicitous strawberry floater who would sell out pretty much anyone to further himself. Why do they think he's going to deliver on anything he says?


The ERG are also duplicitous strawberry floaters so maybe they see him as a kindred soul.

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PostRe: GR Decides - Tory Leadership
by Lex-Man » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:49 am

Moggy wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:I think the Corbyn thing is a bit of a red herring. Most people could beat Corbyn. May managed it while running one of the worst election campaigns in history.


I think that was true in 2017 when May was still being touted as the new Iron Lady, when she was shouting "Brexit means Brexit" and when she went to scowl at the House of Lords.

But things change quickly. Leavers have gone from wanting a Norway style deal to demanding WTO only rules. Half the Tory MPs are looked at as betrayers by Leavers, Hunt is definitely one of them.

The Tories will lose a bucket load of votes if somebody like Hunt is in charge as the Leavers will see him as Maybot 2.0. With the Brexit Party there ready and willing to scoop those votes up.

Johnson will not have that baggage if he takes over and if he pushes a hard Brexit agenda. As much as I dislike Johnson he is possibly the only person to save us from Farage gaining a lot of seats. But as he will do it by acting like Farage, Johnson can strawberry float off imo.


True, I guess without Brexit anybody could beat Corbyn. With it I don't think anyone will be able to. I guess my point is he isn't the uber powerful guy he's made out to be.

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