GR Decides - Tory Leadership

Lex-Man wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Lex-Man wrote:I think the Corbyn thing is a bit of a red herring. Most people could beat Corbyn. May managed it while running one of the worst election campaigns in history.

I think that was true in 2017 when May was still being touted as the new Iron Lady, when she was shouting "Brexit means Brexit" and when she went to scowl at the House of Lords.

But things change quickly. Leavers have gone from wanting a Norway style deal to demanding WTO only rules. Half the Tory MPs are looked at as betrayers by Leavers, Hunt is definitely one of them.

The Tories will lose a bucket load of votes if somebody like Hunt is in charge as the Leavers will see him as Maybot 2.0. With the Brexit Party there ready and willing to scoop those votes up.

Johnson will not have that baggage if he takes over and if he pushes a hard Brexit agenda. As much as I dislike Johnson he is possibly the only person to save us from Farage gaining a lot of seats. But as he will do it by acting like Farage, Johnson can strawberry float off imo.

True, I guess without Brexit anybody could beat Corbyn. With it I don't think anyone will be able to. I guess my point is he isn't the uber powerful guy he's made out to be.

I agree Corbyn is a long way from being an uber powerful guy. And Brexit is going to hit him just as hard, Leavers don’t trust him, Remainers don’t trust him. The Lib Dems and Greens ought to do well out of Corbyn’s handling of all of this.

If Corbyn thinks his route to power is to continue to sit on the fence, then he is in for a shocking awakening at the next election. He needs to pick a side and go all out on it, because Johnson will be hoovering up all of those Leave voters.

I guess Corbyn is hoping the next election comes after Brexit is done and dusted. But even if the next GE is after Brexit, people will have long memories.

Moggy wrote:

Lex-Man wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Lex-Man wrote:I think the Corbyn thing is a bit of a red herring. Most people could beat Corbyn. May managed it while running one of the worst election campaigns in history.

I think that was true in 2017 when May was still being touted as the new Iron Lady, when she was shouting "Brexit means Brexit" and when she went to scowl at the House of Lords.

But things change quickly. Leavers have gone from wanting a Norway style deal to demanding WTO only rules. Half the Tory MPs are looked at as betrayers by Leavers, Hunt is definitely one of them.

The Tories will lose a bucket load of votes if somebody like Hunt is in charge as the Leavers will see him as Maybot 2.0. With the Brexit Party there ready and willing to scoop those votes up.

Johnson will not have that baggage if he takes over and if he pushes a hard Brexit agenda. As much as I dislike Johnson he is possibly the only person to save us from Farage gaining a lot of seats. But as he will do it by acting like Farage, Johnson can strawberry float off imo.

True, I guess without Brexit anybody could beat Corbyn. With it I don't think anyone will be able to. I guess my point is he isn't the uber powerful guy he's made out to be.

I agree Corbyn is a long way from being an uber powerful guy. And Brexit is going to hit him just as hard, Leavers don’t trust him, Remainers don’t trust him. The Lib Dems and Greens ought to do well out of Corbyn’s handling of all of this.

If Corbyn thinks his route to power is to continue to sit on the fence, then he is in for a shocking awakening at the next election. He needs to pick a side and go all out on it, because Johnson will be hoovering up all of those Leave voters.

I guess Corbyn is hoping the next election comes after Brexit is done and dusted. But even if the next GE is after Brexit, people will have long memories.

So we're in kind of agreement. Corbyn really isn't the problem for the Tories it's more the Lib Dems/ Greens and possibly Brexit Party.

Lex-Man wrote:So we're in kind of agreement. Corbyn really isn't the problem for the Tories it's more the Lib Dems/ Greens and possibly Brexit Party.

Yeah I don’t think we disagree, we just have different ways of thinking about it.

For the Tories the Brexit Party are a real threat.

For Labour the Lib Dems and Greens are a real threat.

But it’ll all depend on when the next GE happens and whether it is before or after Brexit. Or if Brexit happens at all. And on who is Tory leader. And if there is a deal or no deal. Basically who the strawberry float knows.

The problem with Corbyn (who once again we're talking about in the Tory party) is he offers nothing to no one.

He's never explained to Leavers why they need to compromise. Why their unicorns don't exist. The lies they fell for etc He's made no attempt to talk them off that ledge to "soft Brexit". Just promised unicorns or repeated lies (the Brexit dividend for the NHS being particularly galling)

He's never explained to Remains why they need to compromise. There's no objective upside to (even the softest) Brexit. All he's got is "democracy!" [of an illegal, racist, hate filled campaign...yeah let's listen to that) and "well at least it's not hard Brexit" (which, if Brexit's so bad, oppose it...which is why remainers are going elsewhere)

Car crash as normal - you can see why he's been in hiding.

Don't read the comments though if you value your blood pressure...there's no way of reaching those deluded stains.

twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1143461041516548099

strawberry float me.

Wow, that opening 7 minutes in particular was an absolute disaster because he answered nothing.

"Beyond satire", indeed.

Just congratulate yourselves on not having to pick one of them.

Denster wrote:Just congratulate yourselves on not having to pick one of them.

I have no idea how the process works but is there no way to spoil your ballet here?

The stuff about the photograph and the hair is stupid and daft, but it's what the photograph signifies overall that's important, and it's amazing how many people commentating can't see it.

The likely reality is that photo was knowingly taken and sent to the Daily Mail with the full consent of Boris Johnson, in a stage-managed exercise to show his relationship is all hunky-dory. Worse, the photo was probably taken days, weeks or months earlier, making the overarching narrative even more false. Nobody should be flailing around so much answering what, on the surface, is such a simple question had he been organically snapped like he was literally days earlier in a Tesco Express doing his shopping. This garden chat is the same rubbish Meghan Markle's Dad pulled in the cafe last year.

This is also why many celebrities complaining about privacy and the Mail 'sidebar of shame' is a joke too, as the majority of these pap photos have been done with the full knowledge and consent of everyone involved. Rihanna meanwhile lived in London for over a year and nobody even noticed.

Tafdolphin wrote:

Denster wrote:Just congratulate yourselves on not having to pick one of them.

I have no idea how the process works but is there no way to spoil your ballet here?

Of course or I could abstain but what would be the point?

I can see yours - vote for neither but I'm a Tory. I'm not going to lose the chance to vote. I'm just not a huge supporter of either candidate.

Denster wrote:Just congratulate yourselves on not having to pick one of them.

Gotta be honest, I would go for Hunt in this choice. He is a gimp. But he is nowhere near as terrible as Johnson.

I think it would have been far better for Boris to just come out and say - we'd had an argument and voices were raised. By saying nothing he has greatly contributed to it becoming a far larger issue than it needed to be.

Agreed. This is damaging him quite a bit. But I don't think the voter base will care.

Yeah. I'm not convinced they will.

Denster wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:

Denster wrote:Just congratulate yourselves on not having to pick one of them.

I have no idea how the process works but is there no way to spoil your ballet here?

Of course or I could abstain but what would be the point?

I can see yours - vote for neither but I'm a Tory. I'm not going to lose the chance to vote. I'm just not a huge supporter of either candidate.

Who would be your preferred leader if you could choose any of the current Tory MPs?

What are your reservations on Hunt out of interest?

Moggy wrote:

Denster wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:

Denster wrote:Just congratulate yourselves on not having to pick one of them.

I have no idea how the process works but is there no way to spoil your ballet here?

Of course or I could abstain but what would be the point?

I can see yours - vote for neither but I'm a Tory. I'm not going to lose the chance to vote. I'm just not a huge supporter of either candidate.

Who would be your preferred leader if you could choose any of the current Tory MPs?

Cuttooth wrote:What are your reservations on Hunt out of interest?

I think I've already stated them. I'm not convinced he'll be as firm on brexit and I dont think he's as likely to win a General election. I think he's campaigned well, though.

Fair enough.