Nothing to see here! Lock it up!

DML wrote:I'm just worried this staff issue is going to be repeated over and over again, I think thats people main concern. We are all GR after all, not just twelve to fifteen of us.

It won't. Anything like this will be discussed in the staff room (like it should have been done in the first place) and not put forward publicly. As we've seen adding polls, letting the forumites decide was flawed. It was always gonna go wrong, what with people creating secondary accounts (which is a no no and wrong in itself) and trying to rig / displace the poll.

Green Gecko wrote:DML, do you think that me answering "yes" to "Eighthours for mod?" in both the staff room and all of these topics is really any different to me posting only in the poll topic?

It's up the mods to pay attention to those who are vocal - as they should - but ultimately bluehats like I have no proper hand in this. The mods still have the rubber stamps. Those are the facts. I can understand the manifestation of a "clique" but I think it is just as much up to you whether or not you believe that is the case. You could just call the mod team on GR a "clique", does it really make that much difference?

I dunno, I mean I was very clear yesterday that I even put aside my differences with Eight to kinda explain why I didnt think we needed any new moderators at this time. I just don't like the precedent that its set after all, more than the actual modding of him itself. I wouldnt want to be modded like that personally.

This is what happened to me when I came into this thread this morning:

WILD LEWISD APPEARS!

GREEN GECKO USES *tl;dr*!

*IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!*

*WILD LEWISD IS CONFUSED*

??? ??? ???

*IT HURTS ITSELF IN IT'S CONFUSION!*

DML, as much as I see where you're coming from, it'd be best just to drop it. You'll end up making yourself look like an arse dude.

LewisD wrote:This is what happened to me when I came into this thread this morning:

WILD LEWISD APPEARS!

GREEN GECKO USES *tl;dr*!

*IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!*

*WILD LEWISD IS CONFUSED*

??? ??? ???

*IT HURTS ITSELF IN IT'S CONFUSION!*

Just sprayed my drink over the screen...thanks alot

Prototype wrote:DML, as much as I see where you're coming from, it'd be best just to drop it. You'll end up making yourself look like an **** dude.

Yeah, I've dropped it. I've been far from the most vocal one here by a long shot anyway. But if it happens again the smackdown is gonna happen!

It was all a bit Brian Barwick basically.

... tl;dr is the bane of my life.

I don't think DML is being an arse at all.

Gandalf wrote:

DML wrote:I'm just worried this staff issue is going to be repeated over and over again, I think thats people main concern. We are all GR after all, not just twelve to fifteen of us.

It won't. Anything like this will be discussed in the staff room (like it should have been done in the first place) and not put forward publicly. As we've seen adding polls, letting the forumites decide was flawed. It was always gonna go wrong, what with people creating secondary accounts (which is a no no and wrong in itself) and trying to rig / displace the poll.

But given that this was always going to be the case, why wasn't action taken more quickly? This whole episode has done more damage to 'hours than just making him a mod and saying no more about it. This, for me is the issue, not him being modded (which I've always been fine about).

Commander Jameson wrote:Yesterdays debacle should never have happened. I don't honestly care if TNny should have posted it or not, the fact remains that he did, and the rest of you went along with it. I and others said from the off that it was a truly bad idea, but instead of taking quick and decisive act the whole thing was allowed to escalate.

I totally agree, but do you know why that situation happened? It happened because of two things. Firstly, once the poll was up, we didn't want to face accusations of "Fix! Clique! Bastards! You just do what you want, etc etc" if we took it away again, which was the attitude we had all the way through our talking-through of setting up this place until it became clear that what we were doing was good. Secondly, it was based on the general policy of wanting to give you more of a say, and be seen to give you more of a say than before, as with the initial polls on GR to determine many of the features of this forum. Sadly, yesterday's debacle has hardened a few people's views on how far to "democratise" forum decisions in the future, which I think is a shame. I hope they can be persuaded to change their minds back.

The very idea of a poll backfired, obviously (never mind, tnny), but the real error (in my opinion) was to remove the poll with five minutes to go and then not bring it back once the result was known. I was facepalming when I read the forum at midnight. As soon as I saw my name in green this morning, I moved the thread back here so you can see we didn't piss about with the numbers.

Staff room comments start at about page 32 in the thread, so you can see exactly what happened. No matter how much of a farce the thing ended up being, I won by a single vote. A majority. Anyone who thinks this isn't enough should go and picket outside Parliament and the White House a long time before they get to me!

Eighthours wrote:

Commander Jameson wrote:Yesterdays debacle should never have happened. I don't honestly care if TNny should have posted it or not, the fact remains that he did, and the rest of you went along with it. I and others said from the off that it was a truly bad idea, but instead of taking quick and decisive act the whole thing was allowed to escalate.

I totally agree, but do you know why that situation happened? It happened because of two things. Firstly, once the poll was up, we didn't want to face accusations of "Fix! Clique! ********! You just do what you want, etc etc" if we took it away again, which was the attitude we had all the way through our talking-through of setting up this place until it became clear that what we were doing was good. Secondly, it was based on the general policy of wanting to give you more of a say, and be seen to give you more of a say than before, as with the initial polls on GR to determine many of the features of this forum. Sadly, yesterday's debacle has hardened a few people's views on how far to "democratise" forum decisions in the future, which I think is a shame. I hope they can be persuaded to change their minds back.

The very idea of a poll backfired, obviously (never mind, tnny), but the real error (in my opinion) was to remove the poll with five minutes to go and then not bring it back once the result was known. I was facepalming when I read the forum at midnight. As soon as I saw my name in green this morning, I moved the thread back here so you can see we didn't piss about with the numbers.

Staff room comments start at about page 32 in the thread, so you can see exactly what happened. No matter how much of a farce the thing ended up being, I won by a single vote. A majority. Anyone who thinks this isn't enough should go and picket outside Parliament and the White House a long time before they get to me!

I agree with everything you wrote, especially the removal of the topic before the poll ended, which to my mind was sheer idiocy (sorry Steve, but it really was a bad call). I apologise now if I seem to be dragging this whole thing out, but I genuinely feel that this whole thing has tarnished reputations and left a bad taste in many forumites mouths.

I guess my point is that many people truly care about this place, not just the select few who created this haven for GR refugees, and we want our views to be taken seriously. Even if that is just being listened to about things that we have a serious, sensible view on - like not having that topic in the first place.

Commander Jameson wrote:I agree with everything you wrote, especially the removal of the topic before the poll ended, which to my mind was sheer idiocy (sorry Steve, but it really was a bad call). I apologise now if I seem to be dragging this whole thing out, but I genuinely feel that this whole thing has tarnished reputations and left a bad taste in many forumites mouths.

I guess my point is that many people truly care about this place, not just the select few who created this haven for GR refugees, and we want our views to be taken seriously. Even if that is just being listened to about things that we have a serious, sensible view on - like not having that topic in the first place.

You'll get no argument from me on any of that. We were ruined by our good intentions, unfortunately. I just hope it doesn't push us the other way, as I think that would equally be a mistake.

Commander Jameson wrote:

Gandalf wrote:

DML wrote:I'm just worried this staff issue is going to be repeated over and over again, I think thats people main concern. We are all GR after all, not just twelve to fifteen of us.

It won't. Anything like this will be discussed in the staff room (like it should have been done in the first place) and not put forward publicly. As we've seen adding polls, letting the forumites decide was flawed. It was always gonna go wrong, what with people creating secondary accounts (which is a no no and wrong in itself) and trying to rig / displace the poll.

But given that this was always going to be the case, why wasn't action taken more quickly? This whole episode has done more damage to 'hours than just making him a mod and saying no more about it. This, for me is the issue, not him being modded (which I've always been fine about).

We were in a no win situation (a bit like now) we thought about locking the poll, but if we had I'm sure there were people out there, throwing their hands up, and accusing it all as a fix.

There is no damage to Eighty, everyone knows how he works in this place and everyone is going to have to accept he's a Moderator now.

I just hope the democracy continues on stuff like the media folder and that major changes to the forum aren't forced in. It was that democracy that led to the migration being so successful, lets not forget that.

Anyway, glad to have you in charge Eighthours you did a fantastic job over at GR. Hopefully you can see with the fuss that has happened that my reasoning for voting no (the cause of division) was entirely genuine, and not to do with your own actions.

If I was a mod I think I would lock this thread now and draw a line under the whole affair.

Gandalf wrote:We were in a no win situation (a bit like now) we thought about locking the poll, but if we had I'm sure there were people out there, throwing their hands up, and accusing it all as a fix.

There was ample opportunity before the topic was advertised in OT and GGC. Look at Hexx's and my posts in the early stages and we begged for it not to be done.

There is no damage to Eighty, everyone knows how he works in this place and everyone is going to have to accept he's a Moderator now.

I truly hope that this is the case.

captain red dog wrote:If I was a mod I think I would lock this thread now and draw a line under the whole affair.

I hope this doesn't happen. I for one need to get this out of my system. This isn't about 'hours. I don't think it ever really was.

How can the poll be called farcical, but still be used as the main reason to mod Eighthours? Lets not pretend that was the case Eight, it was a staff room decision, and that was that.

EDIT - Actually forget it, I'm too confused as it is.

captain red dog wrote:If I was a mod I think I would lock this thread now and draw a line under the whole affair.

Amen to that, but then we'll only have the inevitable off shoot topics, accusing staff of trying to sweep this under the carpet etc etc. So, just keep this open and wait for it to fizzle out.

"Everyone is happy at my appointment as mod"

I look at this thread, and the other one, and think "wow". Indeed, this whole situation is very close to your hearts. Might as well leave the topic open — merge them, even — so maybe the whole thing will calm down.

Fair enough Gandalf. Personally my view is that what's done is done and moaning in here won't change it. If you have any complains PM them to the chief suspects!

I could go on and on about how badly the whole thing was handled but there isn't any point as I think everybody involved gets it.