OrangeRakoon wrote:This post is so incorrect
I was quite drunk when I replied with this so apologies, although I stand by the sentiment! Here is a more invested rebuttal of some of the points made in this thread.
Hime wrote:horrendous platforming and inconsistent combat don't make aimlessly wandering very appealing.
The platforming is competent and every time you unlock an additional movement option it feels satisfying and rewarding to use. It takes a moment to get used to the jumping, and I think that is because there is no courtesy window on running off the edge of a platform - you must jump before running off the edge, not a moment afterwards (like many platformers allow). At least, that is what I
think is going on. It would definitely explain how I felt when I adjusted when I started playing.
Respawning from deaths by spikes or drowning is instant and prevents frustration with the harder platforming sections. The only platforming in the game I could really complain about is
the white palace because there it feels like it is trying to be a twitch platformer, but the health system is not set up to allow for repeated deaths. I got through it fine and the actual platforming was fun, I was just slowed down by having to worry about my health and how many more attempts I had before risking a game over. Luckily that part of the game is self-contained to the third ending, and the worst offending part of it (aka hardest) is entirely optional.
Inconsistent combat: The combat in Hollow Knight is incredibly consistent. The controls are tight and responsive and I can almost guarantee that you will get the same results from repeating the same actions - you can get a pretty clear demonstration of this in the arena as one easy example. The bosses are all about pattern recognition and learning, and this relies fundamentally on having consistent combat. When you die in Hollow Knight it is your fault, and once you learn an enemy or boss well enough you will be able to beat it consistently.
Hime wrote:I thought I'd look at a guide and I think I'm stuck at some bouncy mushrooms, it looks like you have to hit them to bounce higher
. I know that it's almost the guaranteed path to critical success to have a fairly obtuse game with little to no explanation of the systems but what about that is intuitive?
I thought this was well designed to be intuitive as to what the player needs to do, and I have
screenshots to prove it!
This is the room as it looks when you enter. You drop down from above so you're always coming in from this direction.
See how there are some mushrooms on the floor just below the ledge you start on? These are perfectly positioned for you to fall onto when you run off the edge. And what happens when you drop onto them? You bounce!
When you try to move further right there is this obvious pillar that is far too high to jump over, but you can also see past it on the screen and see that this is a way to go - and on either side there are more mushrooms at half the height of the pillar.
The player may well have figured out what to do already, but more hints are to be found if necessary. These mushrooms are new and the player is quite likely to try attacking them (especially as there are other breakable scenery mushrooms surrounding them). Hit the ones on the ground from the side and you'll be sent skidding backwards - a direct demonstration that attacking the mushrooms bounces you off further than just colliding with them.
It is left to the player to fill in the final piece of the puzzle, that you have to do a downwards attack on the mushrooms to gain the height you need - but I think the game does a very good job of guiding the player towards the solution without telling them. Revisiting it I actually think it's a good example of how well the game is designed!
Karl wrote:To take some of the heat off you, on top of that I also absolutely despise this game's art style.
The art style is adorably dark, and the fact that they pull off such a mix deserves recognition. The animation is smooth and pleasing while also not getting in the way of the incredibly responsive gameplay and character control. This isn't a game where you get caught waiting for animations to complete and that is part of why it plays so well, and yet the player character still looks lovely in motion.
A common criticism also seems to be Hollow Knight's use of colour, as the game is largely black, grey and blue with white highlights. This muted colour palette matches the melancholic world, but it also works well as a backdrop for the bright contrasting orange that signals the infection. This makes the game very easy and intuitive to read when it comes to working out what is dangerous.
I'm glad you added the winking face at least because I can understand not being keen on the art style in general, but it should never be despised when it has objective merit
Jenuall wrote:The map system doesn't help with this either, it doesn't always mark area transitions on the map with a label so it can look like you have an unexplored "doorway" to go through when actually it is somewhere you have already been. Similarly by marking a whole area on a map when you enter it it's hard to remember if it genuinely is a room that you have explored all the way through, or if there was something that prevented you from doing so. This is all then compounded by the sheer scale of the map which means it can take a long time to traverse between areas where you think you may need to go next, as well as making it much harder to remember the make up of the different areas: "I know there were a few places that some of my new abilities would help with but it's been hours since I saw those places and now I can't remember where I should be going!"
This was presumably a complaint with the game on release, because the free content updates (that the Switch version launched with) include tools made to counter this. You can buy pin sets to place on the map to mark locations you have found, and there are more than enough pins for you to mark out each type of obstacle requiring a certain power to overcome. I didn't use them because I binged the game sufficiently to not forget what I was doing and I remembered the location of places I needed to return to, but for someone playing the game more casually the tools exist within the game to make it through. The genre is about exploration and being able to reach new parts of old areas, so I think it comes with a certain expectation of the player to do this themselves. If you struggle to remember where you should be going back to, that's what the pins are for - and they are very reasonably priced so as to be accessible from almost the very beginning of the game.