Hong Kong Protests

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Vermilion
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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by Vermilion » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:00 am

captain red dog wrote:Kind of feel we should have held an independence referendum (yes I know, one of those) in the 70s or 80s so that HK could vote for self determination.


Unfortunately, had that happened, whichever side lost the argument would have then kept banging on about having another vote so that they could get the result they wanted.

Referendums are a toxic business.

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OrangeRKN
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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by OrangeRKN » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:29 am

Referenda should be used to inform policy, not dictate it. They are tools for unambiguously gauging public opinion, so should be used to assess the morals of a society and how it self-identifies in a general sense. That's why taking one side based on a slim majority is the wrong response to a closely fought referendum. What that actually informs the government and country of is the divisiveness of the issue, which is an argument for not dismissing one side outright in favour of the other, but instead to find compromise.

So I don't think referenda are inherently toxic, I think they are tools that are largely used incorrectly.

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Preezy
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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by Preezy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:41 am

We should have a referendum on banning any future referenda.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by Moggy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:54 am

Vermilion wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Kind of feel we should have held an independence referendum (yes I know, one of those) in the 70s or 80s so that HK could vote for self determination.


Unfortunately, had that happened, whichever side lost the argument would have then kept banging on about having another vote so that they could get the result they wanted.

Referendums are a toxic business.


I don’t think it is inevitable that people “bang on about another one” for all referendums. But if they are based so much on lies that the outcome is completely different to the promise, then yeah it is inevitable that the losing side will want another one.

Scotland was told that they had to vote to stay in the Union in order to stay in the EU. That’s turned out to be untrue.

The UK was told that Brexit would mean amazing trade deals around the world while retaining single market access. Plus hundreds of millions of pounds of extra cash. That turned out to be untrue.

Resolving Hong Kong by a referendum was never going to happen though. Part of the territory was British only because of the Opium Wars, not a glorious time in British history. China then leased the remaining parts of the territory to Britain for 99 years.

While I agree with self determination, China certainly doesn’t. They wouldn’t have agreed to a referendum and they would have invaded if Britain tried to hold onto Hong Kong for longer than the lease. Britain actually did a pretty good job with the handover, the one country two systems should have protected Hong Kong for decades to come, hopefully by then China would have become slightly less authoritarian. But it now doesn’t look like that will be the case, in the short term Hong Kong might be able to hold on (unlikely but possible) but they are strawberry floated long term.

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by Knoyleo » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:46 am

Disappearances continue

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproj ... d-in-china
Employee at UK’s consulate in Hong Kong detained in China

An employee at the UK’s consulate in Hong Kong has been detained by mainland Chinese authorities on his way back to the city, his girlfriend has said.

Simon Cheng, 28, was travelling back from a business trip in Shenzhen province to his native Hong Kong on 8 August when he suddenly stopped messaging, his girlfriend, Li, told the Guardian.

“Ready to pass through the border … pray for me,” he had messaged just before he went silent, Li said.

More than 10 days later, Li and Cheng’s family have not been able to get in touch with him. Li said Hong Kong immigration authorities told her Cheng had been placed under “administrative detention” in mainland China in an unknown location and for unknown reasons.

The detention of Cheng, who works in the British consulate as a trade and investment officer for Scottish Development International, comes amid more than two months of pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong that have threatened Beijing’s authority over the city.


More at the link.

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The Watching Artist
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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by The Watching Artist » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:56 pm

:dread:

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No:1 Final Fantasy Fan
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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by No:1 Final Fantasy Fan » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:10 pm

Wonder what he did that caused him to be detained in China

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Moggy
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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by Moggy » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:31 pm

No:1 Final Fantasy Fan wrote:Wonder what he did that caused him to be detained in China


He was wearing a Winnie the Pooh t-shirt.

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Pedz
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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by Pedz » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:33 pm

Lies, he tipped over another raft on the river.

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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by Ironhide » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:59 pm

Moggy wrote:
No:1 Final Fantasy Fan wrote:Wonder what he did that caused him to be detained in China


He was wearing a Winnie the Pooh t-shirt.


:lol:

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Vermilion
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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by Vermilion » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:02 pm

Moggy wrote:He was wearing a Winnie the Pooh t-shirt.


Now I understand why they decided to take action.

When Winnie was executed by firing squad, he refused a blindfold.

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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by pjbetman » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:44 pm

Skarjo wrote:No, it's the whole damn city. Honestly I've never seen turnout like it. One of the biggest marches was something like 2 million people, which in a city of 7 million, once you discount the children, elderly etc is basically everyone who could have possibly attended.

As for the police - strawberry float them. They're deliberately provoking the protestors in order to get an excuse to crack down on them. They've been allowed to take off their ID badges and ID numbers, wear face masks etc so that when, for instance, one is caught on camera trying to gouge out the eye of a protestor or another slams a 65 year woman into the floor and shatters her arm or another strawberry floating blinds a girl in one eye with a close range headshot from a bean bag - no one gets held accountable.

It's gonna get ugly, coz Winnie the Pooh is itching for a chance to play the strongman.

EDIT; As for the molotov cocktails, there's a lot of evidence that the guys who threw them were triads. Not to get too far down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, but during conflicts in Yuen Long, there was reports of the Triads working alongside the police trying to cause more issues to provoke a stronger response from the police, and it's been suggested that mainland Triads are orchestrating the worst of the attacks through their HK branches. But I'll readily admit that could all be tinhattery.


Brilliant. We should all be doing it. Fair play to them for standing up to the violence and carrying on.

There's been videos of protesters getting twatted by about 20-30 triads (or other gangs?) whilst trying to get off a train. Looks legit like.

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Oblomov Boblomov
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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by Oblomov Boblomov » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:21 pm

Vermilion wrote:
Moggy wrote:He was wearing a Winnie the Pooh t-shirt.


Now I understand why they decided to take action.

When Winnie was executed by firing squad, he refused a blindfold.

That's something no man should ever have to see :cry:.

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Skarjo
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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by Skarjo » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:28 am

Knoyleo wrote:Disappearances continue

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproj ... d-in-china
Employee at UK’s consulate in Hong Kong detained in China

An employee at the UK’s consulate in Hong Kong has been detained by mainland Chinese authorities on his way back to the city, his girlfriend has said.

Simon Cheng, 28, was travelling back from a business trip in Shenzhen province to his native Hong Kong on 8 August when he suddenly stopped messaging, his girlfriend, Li, told the Guardian.

“Ready to pass through the border … pray for me,” he had messaged just before he went silent, Li said.

More than 10 days later, Li and Cheng’s family have not been able to get in touch with him. Li said Hong Kong immigration authorities told her Cheng had been placed under “administrative detention” in mainland China in an unknown location and for unknown reasons.

The detention of Cheng, who works in the British consulate as a trade and investment officer for Scottish Development International, comes amid more than two months of pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong that have threatened Beijing’s authority over the city.


More at the link.


Yea the Shenzehn border is apparently a nightmare at the moment. It's all whispers and rumours but apparently 2 out of every 3 people are having their phones checked and if there's anything protest related on there it's goodnight moon.

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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by El Contador » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:51 am

I’ve been in Hong Kong for the past six months and it is pretty amazing what is going on. I’ve participated in a number of protests (and still been able to travel to and from China somehow!) and had the police charge at us but in the last few weeks things have really stepped up; the police have totally overacted as others have mentioned, the Chinese have gone from not acknowledging this and suppressing footage in the mainland to actively talking about it and blaming the West for stoking it (irony yesterday as Chinese Twitter bots were banned for trying to incite violence against the protestors) and images of the PLA getting ready to roll in Shenzhen.

Apparently there has been a decision though from the Mainland to calm things down as we approach October 1 and the 70th anniversary of the establishment of China so we’ll see if they do calm down a bit, both in HK and abroad. I think there’s also a hope that schools and universities will re-open and that will start to drain some of the protestors...but 2m people marching out of a city of 7m means this is not just the kids - it’s everyone (‘lol that’s not literally everyone is it lol’).

I am amazed and inspired but the worry is that if China does not get its way soon then they’ve shown they can wait things out - they think in generations rather than four year election cycles. The impact I’ve seen in HK has already been pretty large, even in the sheltered expat community. I can’t imagine HK being the same in even five years and that’s a shame :(

Will try and post some of my videos and pictures in a bit if I can figure it out!

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Oblomov Boblomov
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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by Oblomov Boblomov » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:23 am

Our man on the ground :datass: we go way back, to at least a few hours ago this morning.

(Would be very interesting to see your photos/videos!)

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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by Dual » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:58 am

El Contador wrote:Will try and post some of my videos and pictures in a bit if I can figure it out!


Stay safe bro.

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PostRe: Hong Kong Protests
by El Contador » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:20 am

Cheers guys. I’m actually heading back to the UK on Friday (if the airport and Cathay are up and running!) as my secondment with work is over ( :( ), so I’m sure I’ll be fine!

There was a small rally outside our office just now, which is a few hundred yards away from the LegCo building (HK’s parliament in effect and where the first major protest really started at the beginning of June) but the mood in the city seems to be a lot quieter, particularly during the working week. The weekend’s though are another thing and I’m sure they’ll be another couple of million in the street, especially as the government continue to reject the protestors demands outright.

Also will post the pics and videos when I get back!


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