HS2.

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Frank
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PostRe: HS2.
by Frank » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:40 pm

The one thing that irritates me is that it's all this money being spent on totally new infrastructure and not improving the existing ones. It's a totally new line, requiring a totally new station in Birmingham (when we've already got three literally a five minute walk from each other...) for a saving of ~20 minutes on the Birmingham > London travel time.

Doesn't seem worth the money, really, and it seems woefully planned. Like, do a proper job, or don't bother, y'know?

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Dowbocop
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PostRe: HS2.
by Dowbocop » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:44 pm

The UK isn't that big, so I'm not convinced spending that much money giving lightning fast trains to a relatively small portion of the country is a great idea. I think the money would be better spent connecting up and decarbonizing public transport in cities in the north of England. If you could get a reliable service from Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds, that would massively reduce traffic on the M62. I'm sure there are other examples. The problem is that people have such low trust in that line that it'd take time to get them to leave the car at home. The problem is also that we have a massively fragmented network based on profit and not passengers.

The cost and timeframe of HS2 is obscene as well.

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: HS2.
by Cuttooth » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:45 pm

It surely makes more sense to do it backwards anyway, right? Improve the Leeds to Birmingham and north west connections before the Midlands to London one?

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: HS2.
by Lagamorph » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:46 pm

Or spend some money on Northern Rail who currently get the cast offs of the rail networks that got the cast offs 10 years ago.

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Mafro
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PostRe: HS2.
by Mafro » Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:02 pm

In Scotland so I couldn't give a flying strawberry float about it.

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Somebody Else's Problem
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PostRe: HS2.
by Somebody Else's Problem » Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:23 pm

Upgrade the ECML to allow faster line speeds along the entire route. We already have the new trains, we just need the infrastructure to get the most out of them.

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Dual
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PostRe: HS2.
by Dual » Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:47 pm

Cuttooth wrote:It surely makes more sense to do it backwards anyway, right? Improve the Leeds to Birmingham and north west connections before the Midlands to London one?


Yes this would be better.

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Hime
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PostRe: HS2.
by Hime » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:04 pm

Anyone ego thinks it isn't necessary hasn't seen the huge amount of commuters from the north into London on a Monday and out on a Friday.

Getting traffic off the roads is obviously a good thing, hopefully they'll get more freight on three railway as well.

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Oblomov Boblomov
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PostRe: HS2.
by Oblomov Boblomov » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:13 pm

I'm for it, mostly because I will enjoy getting to/from London quickly and seeing the benefits it brings to Birmingham. The '20 minutes faster' argument is disingenuously based on a mythical express train that no one has ever actually seen or heard, let alone used.

Like others have said, though, why on earth it costs as much as it does is beyond me.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: HS2.
by Lagamorph » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:14 pm

Hime wrote:Anyone ego thinks it isn't necessary hasn't seen the huge amount of commuters from the north into London on a Monday and out on a Friday.

Getting traffic off the roads is obviously a good thing, hopefully they'll get more freight on three railway as well.

Well I don't see how HS2 is going to help with that when it doesn't actually go to the North.

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Frank
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PostRe: HS2.
by Frank » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:16 pm

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:I'm for it, mostly because I will enjoy getting to/from London quickly and seeing the benefits it brings to Birmingham. The '20 minutes faster' argument is disingenuously based on a mythical express train that no one has ever actually seen or heard, let alone used.


Just googled, and you're right. It'd be 30 minutes faster :datass:

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Oblomov Boblomov
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PostRe: HS2.
by Oblomov Boblomov » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:17 pm

Frank wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:I'm for it, mostly because I will enjoy getting to/from London quickly and seeing the benefits it brings to Birmingham. The '20 minutes faster' argument is disingenuously based on a mythical express train that no one has ever actually seen or heard, let alone used.


Just googled, and you're right. It'd be 30 minutes faster :datass:

Time is money, Frank! :nod:

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Jenuall
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PostRe: HS2.
by Jenuall » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:46 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
Jenuall wrote:Anything that allows people from either London or "the North" to get closer to me in a short amount of time is a Bad Thing™ in my book.

It isn't even going to the north if it only goes as far as Manchester.

Exactly, that's already bad enough. :dread:

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Dowbocop
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PostRe: HS2.
by Dowbocop » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:48 pm

Hime wrote:Anyone ego thinks it isn't necessary hasn't seen the huge amount of commuters from the north into London on a Monday and out on a Friday.

Getting traffic off the roads is obviously a good thing, hopefully they'll get more freight on three railway as well.

I travelled from Euston to Liverpool almost every Friday night for nine months and it wasn't that busy. It's just taken my wife an hour to get from Wigan to Liverpool just on a standard Tuesday night using motorways, and our house is a five minute drive from the M62 (in theory!)

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Hime
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PostRe: HS2.
by Hime » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:20 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
Hime wrote:Anyone ego thinks it isn't necessary hasn't seen the huge amount of commuters from the north into London on a Monday and out on a Friday.

Getting traffic off the roads is obviously a good thing, hopefully they'll get more freight on three railway as well.

Well I don't see how HS2 is going to help with that when it doesn't actually go to the North.

1.I'm not sure in what world Manchester isn't the North.
2. Obviously we only want the half decent Northerners down South.

Dowbocop wrote:
Hime wrote:Anyone ego thinks it isn't necessary hasn't seen the huge amount of commuters from the north into London on a Monday and out on a Friday.

Getting traffic off the roads is obviously a good thing, hopefully they'll get more freight on three railway as well.

I travelled from Euston to Liverpool almost every Friday night for nine months and it wasn't that busy. It's just taken my wife an hour to get from Wigan to Liverpool just on a standard Tuesday night using motorways, and our house is a five minute drive from the M62 (in theory!)

Did you use the M11 or M25?

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rinks
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PostRe: HS2.
by rinks » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:25 pm

It’s an utter disgrace. £106 billion? How much do you reckon that will have increased to by 2040 (when it still won’t be finished)? For a fraction of the cost, the entire country could be connected up with FTTH, which would benefit everyone.

And how much do you think the tickets are going to cost? My guess is: way too much for regular people to consider justifiable, but just low enough for business twats to get away with the expense. The whole thing screams “business class”.

Anyway, London will be underwater by 2040.

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rinks
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PostRe: HS2.
by rinks » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:27 pm

I’m not a fan.

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Vermilion
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PostRe: HS2.
by Vermilion » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:30 pm

Hime wrote:1.I'm not sure in what world Manchester isn't the North.


I doubt many Mancunians will use HS2 come to think of it, they're all too busy swearing at people on Call of Duty (seriously, every abusive player i've come across always has a Manchester accent!)

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: HS2.
by Return_of_the_STAR » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:56 pm

Waste of money, waste of materials, waste of time.

I would rather see half of this money spent on improving existing infrastructure and the other half on our emergency services.

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Dowbocop
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PostRe: HS2.
by Dowbocop » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:10 pm

Hime wrote:
Dowbocop wrote:
Hime wrote:Anyone ego thinks it isn't necessary hasn't seen the huge amount of commuters from the north into London on a Monday and out on a Friday.

Getting traffic off the roads is obviously a good thing, hopefully they'll get more freight on three railway as well.

I travelled from Euston to Liverpool almost every Friday night for nine months and it wasn't that busy. It's just taken my wife an hour to get from Wigan to Liverpool just on a standard Tuesday night using motorways, and our house is a five minute drive from the M62 (in theory!)

Did you use the M11 or M25?

Just to clarify, did you mistype and mean the M1? I don't know what the M11 has to do with reducing traffic going to the north from London, that's why I'm asking. In any event, you have no idea where a car on the motorway is coming from or where it's going, so you can't say that HS2 is going to improve those motorways. For instance, my sister lives in Berkshire, and when she drives to my other sister in Walthamstow I'm pretty sure she uses the M4/40, M25 and the M11! If she gets to my house in Liverpool she's pretty strawberry floating lost :lol:

I know that if you get on the Lime Street train you are going at the very least to Stafford, in the north Midlands. Ditto the Manchester train, although that does stop at Nuneaton and Rugby I think which are a bit more central. The point is that if people are using their cars for that journey instead of the line which I was on which had alright capacity in my experience, then it could be because the route after the WCML, e.g. from Stafford to Stoke or Runcorn to Tranmere* is a bit crap, which HS2 won't help, but investment in regional rail and bus will. Other factors could be people being snobbish about public transport, people needing to transport a lot of stuff, or costs of using the railway. All of these are different issues.

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* I don't know what those routes are like to be fair, just picked a pair of towns near each other...


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