If someone says something offensive, how should society deal with it?

Moggy wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:Why am I not surprised to see the inventor of 'the Moggy' defending 'the Moggy'? I do agree though. In theory there could be a difficult, blurred boundary to navigate but in reality it's usually pretty clear cut whether an old post means anything or if it's a long-dead remnant of childish/adolescent ignorance.

I thought you might say that:

Oblomov Boblomov in 2011 wrote:strawberry float all the foreigners and you can strawberry floating quote me on that!

Can't believe that was a whole ten years ago

I just looked back and found your response:

Moggy wrote:One day I will remind you of this quote, O Great One, and you will look back on it fondly, just as I look back on my lifetime of support for Bristol Rovers, the greatest football team in the land!

What playful, innocent young souls we once were :wub:

.

Moggy wrote:Trawling through old posts/tweets can also be justified though.

Moggy in 2008 wrote:They should get George Clooney to voice Batman...

Shocking behaviour!

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Moggy wrote:One day I will remind you of this quote, O Great One, and you will look back on it fondly, just as I look back on my lifetime of support for Bristol Rovers, the greatest football team in the land!

I'm not taking gooseberry fool like that from a Forest fan. :lol:

Vermilion wrote:
Moggy in 2008 wrote:They should get George Clooney to voice Batman...

I regret nothing.

I don't think I've posted much that'd be considered truly controversial .

Other than not liking certain popular things that is.

Ironhide wrote:I don't think I've posted much that'd be considered truly controversial .

Other than not liking certain popular things that is.

Ironhide wrote:
Raphael was far more suspect, afterall, Sai swords were designed to be used by women.

Website

Moggy wrote:I've been trying to think of the high profile people that have been "cancelled". So far I've got:

Jeremy Clarkson: He has a long history of racism but only lost his job after physically assaulting a producer. But he was soon snapped up for millions of pounds by Amazon and is now also on ITV.

Donald Trump: After being a racist prick, he lost his job on the Apprentice. And then became President of the USA.

Harvey Weinstein: After it emerged he was a serial rapist, he was no longer making movies. See also Kevin Spacey and Bill Cosby.

Anton Du Beke: After referring to somebody as looking like "a Paki" he kept his job and continued to work.

Richard Hammond: After saying that "ice cream is gay", he kept his job and continues to get work.

Piers Morgan: Decades of misdeeds (from "EastBenders" to doctored photos, to phone hacking to years of bullying Meghan Markle) and he's now chosen to walk away from his ITV morning show. It remains to be seen if he gets a job elsewhere.

Katie Hopkins: After years and years of racism, she no longer appears to get TV/radio/newspaper jobs.

Lawrence Fox: After a career as a sidekick to a sidekick, he went on Question Time to laugh at the idea of white privilege. The privately educated white man from a famous family, doesn't believe privilege exists. He's since gone on to appear on TV interviews and is trying to start a political career.

Ellen Degeneres: It was revealed that she was a horrific bully in the workplace. She's still on air.

JK Rowling: A massive transphobe. Her books still sell in the millions, her movies are still being made and video games are still being developed.

Graham Linehan: A massive massive massive transphobe. His shows are still being aired. He hasn't made anything for a while, but it's unclear if that's because nobody wants to make anything with him.

So the only people I can see that have been absolutely cancelled are Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey and Katie Hopkins. Feel free to try and defend those people......

Maybe I have a slightly different idea of what cancelled means? I don't think it means a general 'stopped'. Weinstein and Cosby were guilty of serious sex crimes and their careers came to an end and went to prison, that's law and justice but I wouldn't say that's cancelled. Rather cancelled (off the top of my head) is a person who said or done something that is perceived by some or many to be socially unacceptable but often is not criminal and they are boycotted.

Venom wrote:
Moggy wrote:I've been trying to think of the high profile people that have been "cancelled". So far I've got:

Jeremy Clarkson: He has a long history of racism but only lost his job after physically assaulting a producer. But he was soon snapped up for millions of pounds by Amazon and is now also on ITV.

Donald Trump: After being a racist prick, he lost his job on the Apprentice. And then became President of the USA.

Harvey Weinstein: After it emerged he was a serial rapist, he was no longer making movies. See also Kevin Spacey and Bill Cosby.

Anton Du Beke: After referring to somebody as looking like "a Paki" he kept his job and continued to work.

Richard Hammond: After saying that "ice cream is gay", he kept his job and continues to get work.

Piers Morgan: Decades of misdeeds (from "EastBenders" to doctored photos, to phone hacking to years of bullying Meghan Markle) and he's now chosen to walk away from his ITV morning show. It remains to be seen if he gets a job elsewhere.

Katie Hopkins: After years and years of racism, she no longer appears to get TV/radio/newspaper jobs.

Lawrence Fox: After a career as a sidekick to a sidekick, he went on Question Time to laugh at the idea of white privilege. The privately educated white man from a famous family, doesn't believe privilege exists. He's since gone on to appear on TV interviews and is trying to start a political career.

Ellen Degeneres: It was revealed that she was a horrific bully in the workplace. She's still on air.

JK Rowling: A massive transphobe. Her books still sell in the millions, her movies are still being made and video games are still being developed.

Graham Linehan: A massive massive massive transphobe. His shows are still being aired. He hasn't made anything for a while, but it's unclear if that's because nobody wants to make anything with him.

So the only people I can see that have been absolutely cancelled are Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey and Katie Hopkins. Feel free to try and defend those people......

Maybe I have a slightly different idea of what cancelled means? I don't think it means a general 'stopped'. Weinstein and Cosby were guilty of serious sex crimes and their careers came to an end and went to prison, that's law and justice but I wouldn't say that's cancelled. Rather cancelled (off the top of my head) is a person who said or done something that is perceived by some or many to be socially unacceptable but often is not criminal and they are boycotted.

The majority of people on the list there were not criminals.

Can you think of anybody that has been unfairly "cancelled"?

Website

Moggy wrote:
The majority of people on the list there were not criminals.

Can you think of anybody that has been unfairly "cancelled"?

Moggy, I think you misunderstood my comment as I wasn't talking about fairness or unfairness. I explained that people going to prison doesn't come under the definition cancelled as I see it, that wasn't an attack on you.

Every time I see "If someone says something..." on the index page I can't help but read it like a Sonic Says from the old Sonic cartoon.

Venom wrote:
Moggy wrote:
The majority of people on the list there were not criminals.

Can you think of anybody that has been unfairly "cancelled"?

Moggy, I think you misunderstood my comment as I wasn't talking about fairness or unfairness. I explained that people going to prison doesn't come under the definition cancelled as I see it, that wasn't an attack on you.

I didn't take it as an attack.

The majority of my list were not people that went to prison, I was confused as to why you fixated on that.

Moggy wrote:
Ironhide wrote:I don't think I've posted much that'd be considered truly controversial .

Other than not liking certain popular things that is.

Ironhide wrote:
Raphael was far more suspect, afterall, Sai swords were designed to be used by women.

I honestly don't remember posting that.

Last edited by mic on Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Moggy wrote:Can you think of anybody that has been unfairly "cancelled"?

I’d like to hear opinions on Johnny Depp (vs Amber Heard).

And Gina Carano.

mic wrote:
Moggy wrote:Can you think of anybody that has been unfairly "cancelled"?

I’d like to hear opinions on Johnny Depp (vs Amber Rudd).

And Gina Carano.

Gina Carano is a bigot who compared her getting called out for her awful views to the persecution of Jewish people during the holocaust.

mic wrote:
Moggy wrote:Can you think of anybody that has been unfairly "cancelled"?

I’d like to hear opinions on Johnny Depp (vs Amber Rudd).

And Gina Carano.

Do you think Johnny Depp has been "cancelled"? A court ruled that he had assaulted Heard (an assault on Amber Rudd has yet to be proven

).

Warner Bros then dropped him.

Is it now "cancelling" for a movie studio to drop a problematic actor like that?

As for Carano, comparing conservatives to victims of the Holocaust is never going to play well with a company like Disney. I'd agree she was "cancelled" but you'd have to be pretty insane to think it wasn't justified.

Last edited by Tafdolphin on Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

mic wrote:
Moggy wrote:Can you think of anybody that has been unfairly "cancelled"?

I’d like to hear opinions on Johnny Depp (vs Amber Rudd).

And Gina Carano.

Both of these are two of the most high profile, most deserved sort-of-but-not-really fall from graces of recent years.

Depp is a wife beater and was dropped from a single film (on my walk home last night however I saw multiple Sauvage perfume posters of him) and Gina Carano is a transphobic, anti-Semitic bigot who recent signed on to do a new film with one of the most famous right wing figures in the world (Ben Shapiro).

Both are horrible, horrible people who continue to have a platform and make oodles of cash.

Even the suggestion that either of them has somehow been the victim of unfair consequences is... Mindboggling?

Yeah. Mindboggling.

I'm really not sure about Depp to be honest. I dont think the libel case he lost here means for sure he wasn't the one being abused. There is a lot of evidence out there already around her own abusive behaviour and it's not good. Maybe they were as bad as each other but it will likely all come out properly in the 2022 case in America.

Tomous wrote:I'm really not sure about Depp to be honest. I dont think the libel case he lost here means for sure he wasn't the one being abused. There is a lot of evidence out there already around her own abusive behaviour and it's not good. Maybe they were as bad as each other but it will likely all come out properly in the 2022 case in America.

I've not followed the ins and outs of the relationship, but it sounds like they were both abusive pricks.

I mentioned Depp because I have the impression that Heard was the abusive one, but lied to reverse their roles on the basis of ‘believe women’. Incidentally, we obviously should believe women. Unless they’re lying.

For the purposes of this discussion, we should take being ‘cancelled’ merely as having suffered socially-instigated consequences (such as job loss), rather than facing total ruination, because wealthy people will likely remain solvent and find work elsewhere. For example, when Amy Cooper called the police on African American birdwatcher Christian Cooper because he wanted her to put her dog on a leash, social backlash led to her cancellation because she lost her job (and her dog), not because she suffered some final form of destitution.

Carino was fired, and I agree about the transphobia, but how was her post antisemitic?

Has JKR been cancelled?

OrangeRKN wrote:Every time I see "If someone says something..." on the index page I can't help but read it like a Sonic Says from the old Sonic cartoon.

mic wrote:
For the purposes of this discussion, we should take being ‘cancelled’ merely as having suffered socially-instigated consequences (such as job loss), rather than facing total ruination, because wealthy people will likely remain solvent and find work elsewhere.

For a discussion like this, the only form of being "cancelled" that should count are people that unfairly face consequences for their actions. People screaming about "cancel culture", however crazy they are, are not suggesting we all rush out to buy LostProphet albums.

If somebody does something bad that causes them to be criticised or lose their job, is that really "cancellation" in the way people mean the word? Because if so, the list of "cancelled" people contains everyone on Earth.

Unfairly "cancelled" people? The list is vanishingly small.

If someone says something offensive, how should society deal with it?

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