Inside North Korea

North Korea's only hope of surviving a war with the west would be to use anti-satellite weapons (which it's not clear they even possess; America, China and Russia have them though) to poke out America's eyes over the region, creating a much more level battlefield, which could easily make war with them politically unsustainable and much harder to fight.

Alvin Flummux wrote:North Korea's only hope of surviving a war with the west would be to use anti-satellite weapons (which it's not clear they even possess; America, China and Russia have them though) to poke out America's eyes over the region, creating a much more level battlefield, which could easily make war with them politically unsustainable and much harder to fight.

I think their vast army would do just fine, there's no way you could invade that country and take control, just look at Afghanistan.

Also you can't nuke them, they're not hell bent on taking over the world like Japan were.

Their army's not going to be worth much when America's stealth aircraft and latest generations of cruise missiles systematically tear down North Korea's air defence, radar warning and communication systems as it did in Iraq during the first Gulf War. Well, that is, if it can do that.

Alvin Flummux wrote:Their army's not going to be worth much when America's stealth aircraft and latest generations of cruise missiles systematically tear down North Korea's air defence, radar warning and communication systems as it did in Iraq during the first Gulf War. Well, that is, if it can do that.

At the end of the day America would have to go in and occupy it at some point, and that just ain't gonna happen!

Occupation by American forces wouldn't be necessary if South Korea would be willing to take on that task.

Alvin Flummux wrote:Occupation by American forces wouldn't be necessary if South Korea would be willing to take on that task.

They might be a rising nation, but I doubt they have the resources to successfully run North Korea and look after all it's illiterate, unskilled, starving populous.

America commences hostilities by destroying the North Korean radar warning, air defence and communications systems with stealth aircraft and new, much smarter generations of cruise missiles than were evident in Gulf War 1. North Korea is blind, its aircraft cannot fly (they may even have been destroyed in the first hours of the war), it cannot communicate with its own armies; at least, not in a way that lets them operate effectively against SK or the US. America then dispatches UAVs into NK airspace to assist its spy satellites in getting a fix on the exact locations of armies, warships, airbases and individuals like generals, commanders, political leaders, so that they can be targeted and removed or, in the case of armies, surrounded or maneuvered around. NK's leaderships isn't aware of precisely what's going on, its leaders go into hiding in its bunker complexes and orders the launching of (nuclear?) missiles against targets in SK and Japan. Some are shot down, others aren't. Many die, but NK is ultimately doomed.

Alvin Flummux wrote:America commences hostilities by destroying the North Korean radar warning, air defence and communications systems with stealth aircraft and new, much smarter generations of cruise missiles than were evident in Gulf War 1. North Korea is blind, its aircraft cannot fly (they may even have been destroyed in the first hours of the war), it cannot communicate with its own armies; at least, not in a way that lets them operate effectively against SK or the US. America then dispatches UAVs into NK airspace to assist its spy satellites in getting a fix on the exact locations of armies, warships, airbases and individuals like generals, commanders, political leaders, so that they can be targeted and removed or, in the case of armies, surrounded or maneuvered around. NK's leaderships isn't aware of precisely what's going on, its leaders go into hiding in its bunker complexes and orders the launching of (nuclear?) missiles against targets in SK and Japan. Some are shot down, others aren't. Many die, but NK is ultimately doomed.

The prospect of even ONE nuke landing in Japan or S Korea means the whole thing just isn't worth it. True N Korea don't have the tech to defend themselves, but neither did Afghanistan/Vietnam and look what pointless affairs they turned out to be.

It all boils down to whether N Korea wants to reform, here's hoping a bit of Switzerland rubbed off on Jong-un.

It would surely be worth it just to remove the threat.

I'm still struggling to see why just letting them all starve to death isn't your preferred military strategy? It's working well so far.

Alvin Flummux wrote:It would surely be worth it just to remove the threat.

It's not really a threat, I'd just like to see those poor people liberated.

America continiously accused Saddam of having weapons which he obviously didn't have, and rightly denied having, and look at what happened to him. The more Jong-un threatens the West with weapons he doesn't have the safer he is.

NickSCFC wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:America commences hostilities by destroying the North Korean radar warning, air defence and communications systems with stealth aircraft and new, much smarter generations of cruise missiles than were evident in Gulf War 1. North Korea is blind, its aircraft cannot fly (they may even have been destroyed in the first hours of the war), it cannot communicate with its own armies; at least, not in a way that lets them operate effectively against SK or the US. America then dispatches UAVs into NK airspace to assist its spy satellites in getting a fix on the exact locations of armies, warships, airbases and individuals like generals, commanders, political leaders, so that they can be targeted and removed or, in the case of armies, surrounded or maneuvered around. NK's leaderships isn't aware of precisely what's going on, its leaders go into hiding in its bunker complexes and orders the launching of (nuclear?) missiles against targets in SK and Japan. Some are shot down, others aren't. Many die, but NK is ultimately doomed.

The prospect of even ONE nuke landing in Japan or S Korea means the whole thing just isn't worth it. True N Korea don't have the tech to defend themselves, but neither did Afghanistan/Vietnam and look what pointless affairs they turned out to be.

It all boils down to whether N Korea wants to reform, here's hoping a bit of Switzerland rubbed off on Jong-un.

Well that's the thing, as he went to school in Switzerland you would hope that he became accustomed to western life and will want to bring North Korea more in line the west. However you can only imagine that if he suddenly turned around and said that he wanted to change their direction the military leaders would probably just kill him and make out that died in an accident or something.

There exists a rather uneasiness in this part of the world, something that is amplified by the countries that would ultimately be involved all being big players on the world stage. Foreign military action would destabilise the region and you run the very large risk of a nuclear fall out. The North Koreans suffer terribly at the hands of their brutal and incompetent government who are literally being starved to death, social uprising and reform from within is what is needed, not tactical strikes.

If Kim Jong Un is accustomed to western living then that's how he will live. It doesn't necessarily follow that he'll suddenly be all about making life better for his subjects.

Alvin Flummux wrote:It would surely be worth it just to remove the threat.

Of course it wouldn't. Innocent lives would be lost for a war that could possibly take decades and thousands more would die in conflict that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Seriously, sooner or later. The people of North Korea will liberate themselves, or cause some kind of revolt. Either that or their military will find out the truth about their great leader and either defect, escape the country through china or free out all of the Gulag's.

Something will happen in that country on it's own sooner or later, the rest of the world getting involved would change nothing, if anything it'd make to the north koreans that they've been right all along and their Glourious Leader wasn't just spouting lies about the west.

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:Well that's the thing, as he went to school in Switzerland you would hope that he became accustomed to western life and will want to bring North Korea more in line the west. However you can only imagine that if he suddenly turned around and said that he wanted to change their direction the military leaders would probably just kill him and make out that died in an accident or something.

This, Jong-il was born and raised in Soviet Russia at the height of communism when revolution was taking place in Europe and China and everyone thought it was such a great idea.

In contrast Jong-un was raised in capitalist Switzerland during the collapse of the Soviet Union and the opening up of China, so he's obviously been exposed to capitalism and might've formed an opinion of communism by seeing starving Latvians queueing for bread on TV.

Fair enough he might be every bit as selfish as his father, but it's less likely he's as stubbornly brainwashed.

StayDead wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:It would surely be worth it just to remove the threat.

Of course it wouldn't. Innocent lives would be lost for a war that could possibly take decades and thousands more would die in conflict that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Seriously, sooner or later. The people of North Korea will liberate themselves, or cause some kind of revolt. Either that or their military will find out the truth about their great leader and either defect, escape the country through china or free out all of the Gulag's.

Something will happen in that country on it's own sooner or later, the rest of the world getting involved would change nothing, if anything it'd make to the north koreans that they've been right all along and their Glourious Leader wasn't just spouting lies about the west.

Innocent lives are always lost in war, it wouldn't take decades and you have too much faith in the ability of the people to overthrow the government; been to Myanmar lately? They tried out the whole democratic revolution deal, it didn't work out.

Alvin Flummux wrote:

StayDead wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:It would surely be worth it just to remove the threat.

Of course it wouldn't. Innocent lives would be lost for a war that could possibly take decades and thousands more would die in conflict that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Seriously, sooner or later. The people of North Korea will liberate themselves, or cause some kind of revolt. Either that or their military will find out the truth about their great leader and either defect, escape the country through china or free out all of the Gulag's.

Something will happen in that country on it's own sooner or later, the rest of the world getting involved would change nothing, if anything it'd make to the north koreans that they've been right all along and their Glourious Leader wasn't just spouting lies about the west.

Innocent lives are always lost in war, it wouldn't take decades and you have too much faith in the ability of the people to overthrow the government; been to Myanmar lately? They tried out the whole democratic revolution deal, it didn't work out.

Innocent lives shouldn't have to be lost in war, especially in a case where it could of been avoided completely. That's just horrible. Think of the real long lasting effects of the people who were indirectly affected would feel? I for one, wouldn't be happy knowing our governments caused people who were in other words in no danger what so ever, get nuked because we entered a pointless war.

StayDead wrote:Seriously, sooner or later. The people of North Korea will liberate themselves, or cause some kind of revolt. Either that or their military will find out the truth about their great leader and either defect, escape the country through china or free out all of the Gulag's.

Something will happen in that country on it's own sooner or later, the rest of the world getting involved would change nothing, if anything it'd make to the north koreans that they've been right all along and their Glourious Leader wasn't just spouting lies about the west.

I wish it were that simple, sadly all the people in that country has ever known is rice farming, Japanese occupation and communism. At least the old Russia had a large upper class and some sense of the world. I don't think any country in history (baring tribes) has had so much of a grip over its people, alot of them just don't know any better.

NickSCFC wrote:

StayDead wrote:Seriously, sooner or later. The people of North Korea will liberate themselves, or cause some kind of revolt. Either that or their military will find out the truth about their great leader and either defect, escape the country through china or free out all of the Gulag's.

Something will happen in that country on it's own sooner or later, the rest of the world getting involved would change nothing, if anything it'd make to the north koreans that they've been right all along and their Glourious Leader wasn't just spouting lies about the west.

I wish it were that simple, sadly all the people in that country has ever known is rice farming, Japanese occupation and communism. At least the old Russia had a large upper class and some sense of the world. I don't think any country in history (baring tribes) has had so much of a grip over its people, alot of them just don't know any better.

What Nick says is sadly very true.