f wrote:...
jawa2 wrote:f wrote:...Why is there sixty quid worth of tech in every controller if the games on the console are the kind that could have been made on the SNES?...
The controllers are unique and - potentially! - have some fun capabilities. They're designed, rather like the Wii Remotes, to be attractive to the wider audience rather than the core gaming audience.
None of the games shown so far seem to demonstrate any kind of feature that would require £60 of tech...
The controllers contain this tech:
/ Two shipped with console
Dimensions / 6in x 2.75in x 1in
Wireless / Bluetooth, WiFi, RFID
Charging / Integrated wireless contact and/or wired USB C
Screen / 3.2” diagonal, 320 x 240 TFT color touchscreen
Audio / Speaker and microphone
Disc / 64-position disc with pressure sensing and interactive LED lighting
Buttons / 4 over-sized ambidextrous shoulder buttons, home button
Motion Control / gyroscope, accelerometer (wrist straps included)
Additional Features / Haptic force feedback, dedicated CPU and on-board memory
I can't think of many (any?") controllers currently on the market that include that spec. For £60, I think it stacks up pretty well to the controllers sold by other manufacturers; and no other console includes two controllers in the standard pack. As for games utilising the tech, I'll share some as reference for your next question:
f wrote:...Heck... none of the games shown so far demonstrate features that (visuals aside) couldn't be replicated on the GBA...
Here are some examples of how the controller's unique combination of features can be used in games currently in development:
> Bomb Squad utilises practically all of the controller features; including the led lights built into the console itself.
> Back Talk Party utilise the microphone to record clips of speech and play it back alongside clips recorded from other players.
> Bowling... yep, Wii-type motion controlled bowling!
> Cornhole uses the motion/gyro controls as you throw the objects to try and get nearest the cornhole.
> Farkle uses the motion/gyro controls and lcd screen to throw the dice from your controller onto the TV
> Texas Hold 'Em uses the lcd screen for players to view their own cards separately from the common cards shown on the TV screen.
f wrote:...You've also mentioned the Wii a lot, but if that's what is being aimed for... well, they're missing. For a start:
In the OP, jawa2 wrote:Launch October 2021 TBC
System cost £249.99 TBC (Console, cables, two controllers, six games)
Game cost £2.99 to £9.99 TBC
The Wii launched at £179.99 in 2006, fifteen years ago... now if you bought a brand new Wii, an extra controller and six games, you'd be well over the £250 price point...
The Wii's price point of £180 is equivalent to £266 today (as per the Bank of England's online inflation calculator). Additional Wii Remote controllers were £40; equivalent to £59 today. I feel that the Amico pricing is competitive with this, especially considering the enhanced functionality... and that the Wii console cost was generally considered to be pretty low at release.
f wrote:...but it's the kind of games on offer that are the killer here. If we were talking full retail release games then yes, it's much more expensive to buy Wii games, but we're talking the likes of Mario Galaxy here - undoubtedly the kind of software that sells units. Amico aren't getting near even the third-party party games that Wii played host to, like Boom Blox or Super Monkey Ball...
Mario Galaxy is a fantastic game and undoubtedly a console seller, in my eyes... although we shouldn't forget that the 2D Mario games were bigger sellers than the 3D versions. As more hardcore gamers we love the 3D variants but the casual/mass market responded more strongly to the 2D games. I, too, love the Boom Blox games and that's the kind of title that I'd anticipate seeing on the Amico. The games you've mentioned are terrific but they were £40 each; far beyond the pricing that most Amico games will be. Will Amico games offer fifteen-hour playthrough times on their platform games? Probably not, but at, say, £10 I doubt that most folk would be too concerned by this.
f wrote:jawa2 wrote:The games are similar to SNES games? I understand your point in terms of pick-up-and play and relative simplicity... but the Amico will have a range of games and many of which you don't often see on consoles.
I don't buy this at all. Based on the video you shared there is nothing here out of the ordinary:
In the OP, jawa2 wrote:> Intellivision Amico gameplay trailer (10 October 2020)
The visuals are decent but the style of all the games is very retro. (And without the retro charm of the actual old games or at least replicating the visual style, where's the appeal?) I said SNES very deliberately because anything in this video would have been laughed out of town had it been released on N64. These are all 2D or single screen games. Yes, they've all been given a pleasing aesthetic makeover, but many are shameless rehashing of old games from the 16-bit era and earlier.
Many of these look like they have been made on Flash gamemakers or would be bundled in those cheap "1000 games included!" consoles where 100 of the games are just Space Invaders with a different colour background. Hell, Pong is on the highlights reel, for crying out loud!
Compare with the range available on WiiWare - a console 15 years older...
Clearly there's something amiss here. Fast Racing League, Jett Rocket and FF: Life as a King were all released for WiiWare at an Amico price point. This was years ago.
To me, their messaging is mixed. Is this thing an attractive, low-priced, gateway entry into the world of casual gaming for families who want fun local multiplayer experiences? Or is this a clever alternative to the current consoles with a unique (albeit pricey) controller full of tech that allows for gameplay experiences that differ from what's already on the market? It seems like they're saying it's both... but with no software to highlight the hardware potential, it'll be impossible to sell, while the price undermines its purported intention as a casual console...
The N64? That was released as a cutting edge console that had some of the most expensive games around. It did have some updated retro games such as Robotron and Road Rash (both of which I loved!) and, err, Paperboy and Lode Runner... all of which were damned because of their high pricing and that they weren't utilising the full features of the new system.
I loved WiiWare! I played a number of those games and often they were great fun. Indeed, over the life of the Wii there were some excellent titles released. I'm not quite sure what that proves, though?
The Amico is - generally - focussed on casual, 2D / 2.5D gaming, with the games being easily accessible and priced at affordable levels. It's not competing with Xbox or PlayStation; the videogame market is big enough for different types of systems to exist. The mass market doesn't really gather around the living room TV to play Halo, God of War or even FIFA; they're fantastic games, of course, but generally families and friends want simple, fun games which are pick-up-and-play. I totally get the idea that this console and the games don't appeal to you... that's all good! However, there are other people - many of whom may not have played games much since the Wii - that maybe would be keen to play these simpler, more family-focussed titles.
A console can aim for more than one sector of the gaming market. The Amico is doing this; initially it's target will be the older gamer market (maybe late 30s onwards) who are familiar with the retro-styled titles, but the big goal is to capture that broad type of audience that played Wii - children, families and older people. The Amico will have a number of card, dice, chikdren's and board games that core gamers may well reel back from... but the target market will enjoy them!
You mentioned pricing again and I've covered that above.
f wrote:...If they want to not lose a shedload of money, they need to do one of the following:
Vastly reduce the hardware costs to allow for a more favourable entry price point. It's no point having the Swiss army knife of modern controllers if it's used to play shovelware. Clearly the console isn't the issue given the games demonstrated so the cost factor must be driven by the two included controllers. If all the games need is a D-pad or joystick, some buttons and perhaps a motion sensor, ditch the rest of the functionality before release.
Or
Massively increase the quality of software on offer. Systems live and die on their games and right now the Amico has none. Sorry, but no parent is going to pay £250 so their kids can play through an interactive Sesame Street YouTube video. And the excuse that "they're free with the console!" or "they're only a few quid!" won't wash when the console itself costs so much and it's an extra £60 apiece for players 3 and 4...
Again... pricing. As above, the cost is roughly in line with that of the Wii at launch. There are games that utilise the controller and console features (some of which I've detailed above). The controllers aren't cheap... but the price is similar to that of the Wii controllers and pack in a lot of tech for that cost; more so than for other console controller. If a game doesn't utilise the controller features, mobile devices can be connected to the console and used instead - and the app to do that is free to download. Sure, it may not be the preferred control method, but both are on offer - you can buy controllers or (for some games) use your phone. Up to eight controllers (official or mobile) can be connected.
f wrote:...Otherwise this thing is dead on arrival. They're selling a SNES Mini, devoid of retro charm, and with two mandatory Pro Controllers boxed in, upping the price massively...
It's pretty clear that you're not keen, Dan and - as I said above - that's all cool! Amico may well not be for you!
However, I do feel that you're mistaken on some aspects such as the games utilising the tech of the controllers, the target market and pricing and I hope that my answers have provided a bit more info on those aspects.
