Is it homophobic to sing along to "you cheap lousy ******" when listening to Fairytale of New York?

I saw a fairly prominent gay Twitter user post that it is indeed homophobic to sing along to this. He got loads of replies telling him to strawberry float off but it did get me wondering if maybe he had a point. It's probably not really on for any white person to use the N-word when listening to a rap song.

But then again, isn't context everything here? I don't think The Pogues really were trying to be homophobic when writing this song, and it is about a man arguing with his wife. Surely a song that was written to be sung along to at Xmas time in pubs and at parties isn't actually endorsing homophobic abuse. Times have changed, and people certainly should make every effort where reasonable not to normalise any kind of discrimination, but at the same time, is it not counter-productive to label any straight person who sings these lines as a homophobe?

What do you think?! I think I might start a Hot Takes thread or something.

Corazon de Leon

Shane McGowan has said in interviews that when he wrote the song he was looking for the most intentionally offensive word he could get away with in that line and that’s why ****** was used. I’d argue that it is absolutely a homophobic lyric.

Saigon Slick wrote:Shane McGowan has said in interviews that when he wrote the song he was looking for the most intentionally offensive word he could get away with in that line and that’s why ****** was used. I’d argue that it is absolutely a homophobic lyric.

/thread

Join us next time for more Hot Takes!

Get over it.

Mommy Christmas wrote:Get over it.

Get over what?

Corazon de Leon

This is my point of view on it. It’s very easy, as a straight white man, to say that it’s all a bit of harmless fun and that it’s just a word, no offence is meant or intended, it’s a song of its time etc etc. But the song came out in what, 1988? In the middle of the AIDS epidemic when the homosexual community was completely demonised. It uses a word that is - and was - a source of extreme discomfort for a significant proportion of society and that it’s own creator has admitted was an attempt to create a nasty, hurtful character within the song so the intent is there even if Shane McGowan isn’t specifically homophobic himself(I have no idea what his views are, I don’t know the guy).

I think it’s as simple as this. You wouldn’t tolerate it if the word ****** was replaced by a racial slur, so why should it be tolerated because it’s a homophobic one.

This is like the N word debate: no. No you don't get to use that word no matter the context.

Get over that

Corazon de Leon

Concisely put Taf. Agreed.

Blue Baubles wrote:
Mommy Christmas wrote:Get over it.

Get over what?

Not you in particular. This debate gets wheeled out every year. Its a word in a song, thst rhymes with maggot. Look no deeper than that.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/12/07/f ... -macgowan/

Shane MacGowan says there that there was no offence meant.
The song was written in simpler times where people didnt take offence at every opportunity and feel marginalised because of how they interpreted something.

okb

Corazon de Leon

Mommy Christmas wrote:
Blue Baubles wrote:
Mommy Christmas wrote:Get over it.

Get over what?

Not you in particular. This debate gets wheeled out every year. Its a word in a song, thst rhymes with maggot. Look no deeper than that.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/12/07/f ... -macgowan/

Shane MacGowan says there that there was no offence meant.
The song was written in simpler times where people didnt take offence at every opportunity and feel marginalised because of how they interpreted something.

I’ll say this again - the song was released in the middle of the AIDS epidemic, when the word ****** was absolutely as offensive as it is now.

Personally as gay guy I'd rather not to hear the word, considering the history behind it (not to mention I've had time in discord server where someone used it as fetish thing which made me really uncomfortable as strawberry float)

The context given by Corazon makes me think I'd rather not have anyone do that in my home, especially with my boyfriend around.

I'm happy to just not sing that word.

Same with Money For Nothing, which uses it a few times. Actually saw Mark Knopfler in Glasgow a few months back and he changed the word when they played it. I can't remember what he changed it to, but it definitely stood out for not being the usual lyric.

Last edited by Blue Eyes on Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Saigon Slick wrote:This is my point of view on it. It’s very easy, as a straight white man, to say that it’s all a bit of harmless fun and that it’s just a word, no offence is meant or intended, it’s a song of its time etc etc. But the song came out in what, 1988? In the middle of the AIDS epidemic when the homosexual community was completely demonised. It uses a word that is - and was - a source of extreme discomfort for a significant proportion of society and that it’s own creator has admitted was an attempt to create a nasty, hurtful character within the song so the intent is there even if Shane McGowan isn’t specifically homophobic himself(I have no idea what his views are, I don’t know the guy).

I think it’s as simple as this. You wouldn’t tolerate it if the word ****** was replaced by a racial slur, so why should it be tolerated because it’s a homophobic one.

I fully agree with this but I wanted to take issue with the labelling of anyone who sings along with it as a homophobe. You can both inadvertently normalise homophobia and not be a homophobe, I think.

Rudolphin wrote:This is like the N word debate: no. No you don't get to use that word no matter the context.

Get over that

This

(plus it's a shite song anyway)

Rudolphin wrote:This is like the N word debate: no. No you don't get to use that word no matter the context.

Get over that

It's arguably worse than that even. Non-black people singing the N word in rap is about trying to muscle into a culture you are not a part of and you are not entitled to be a part of. This is literally just about singing an offensive word in a song and not giving a gooseberry fool who it might hurt.

"Its a word in a song, thst rhymes with maggot. Look no deeper than that."

by that logic it could have been carrot

When I was young, I thought a f***** was a type of meat product so I never knew it was offensive.

A Beautiful Kezmas Tree wrote:"Its a word in a song, thst rhymes with maggot. Look no deeper than that."

by that logic it could have been carrot

Or Taggart.

Cheeky Devlin wrote:I'm happy to just not sing that word.

Same with Money For Nothing, which uses it a few times. Actually saw Mark Knopfler in Glasgow a few months back and he changed the word when they played it. I can't remember what he changed it to, but it definitely stood out for not being the usual lyric.

Jammy bastard, I had tickets to go but had to work abroad.

Good on him for changing the lyrics

Is it homophobic to sing along to "you cheap lousy ******" when listening to Fairytale of New York?

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