Is the Wii the worst console since the Saturn?

Agent47 wrote:
Rik wrote:
Agent47 wrote:
Rik wrote:
the Dreamcast is probably the one you're looking for there (take off those rose-tinted specs and look again, there's about 10 decent games and that's pushing it

That's some prize bollocks right there.

I see you have your rose-tinted glasses on then, thus proving my point.

I actually still have my Dreamcast and all the games, to say it only has 10 "decent" games is total bollocks I'm afraid.

If you actually consider it carefully, the DC is very much like the Gamecube in that it has some quality titles, but it's far to insular. Look at it for Christ's sake, half the catalog are strawberry floating Sega Arcade games!
The lack of decent 3rd party support was one of the glaring reasons why it flopped so spectacularly - that and the worst pad design in history.
It had some gems, but very few of them come close to holding up well these days. Considering it had similar power to the PS2, it surely didn't show it very often.

The Dreamcast was a horrible failure because it was a poor console with a poor library of games.

I have loads of third party Dreamcast games, including a fuckload of 2d shooters & beat em ups that piss all over the Gamecube and the Wii. If you want the worst pad I suspect the Atari Jaguar would actually win that one. When Dreamcast & PS2 shared titles the Dreamcast versions were normally better, see Rayman , Dead Or Alive 2 and Crazy Taxi. The Dreamcast didn't have time to get pushed like the PS2 but it gooseberry fool all over early PS2 games from a great hight, it paid the price for Sega mistakes with 32x/MCD and Saturn.

You're saying it didn't have 10 "DECENT" games which as I said is total bollocks.

Agent47 wrote:
suzzopher wrote:Don't know if you know this or not 47 but SEGA Arcade games are actually the best kind of arcade games? So how does that make it a bad console

My point was that it was so insular it would never succeed, exactly the same way the Gamecube died.

How does that make a bad console? Gamecube had so many great games and catered for it's core fan base in the same way SEGA did with the Dreamcast.

Wii on the other hand does not cater for it's core fan base in the same way that Gamecube did as that would have been suicide.

Both consoles were sales failures but both did more great games than the Wii has currently. I hope this new core studio will start pumping out the fan favourites.

Agent47 wrote:
Rik wrote:
the Dreamcast is probably the one you're looking for there (take off those rose-tinted specs and look again, there's about 10 decent games and that's pushing it

That's some prize bollocks right there.

I see you have your rose-tinted glasses on then, thus proving my point.

This is some amazing circular reasoning.

closer wrote:There's something called a real world down here you know !

Unfortunately, you don't seem to be in it. When you've finished having nerd rage & want a proper debate, let me know.

Agent47 wrote:Nintendo have a responsibility to its fans

Or to themselves, as game creators. They used to say that they saw themselves as the greatest videogame development house in the world. And now? The greatest videogame marketing house in the world.

I'm just so bored of how regurgitated this whole casual vs hardcore talk is. I mean, it's been a few years and people still roll it out like no one has heard it all before and that's it's actually true. If games were as extraordinary and exciting as they should be, people just wouldn't be spending so much time writing so much gooseberry fool on forums. It does not happen with any other entertainment medium to the same obsessive degree.

I don't want any talk about how gooseberry fool the wii is because I want Nintendo to make some strawberry floating games for strawberry floating once so such discussions do not occur to mask how boring it all is, this videogaming thing. I want every thread on every forum to be focussed on a new game I've never heard of. I want every videogame website and every videogame writer to focus on a new game I've never heard of.

Anyway, wii. Wii!

wow woo wii woo

reactant mob driven wrote:They used to say that they saw themselves as the greatest videogame development house in the world. And now? The greatest videogame marketing house in the world.

Very good. You're surprisingly astute at times, amid the daftness.

If games were as extraordinary and exciting as they should be, people just wouldn't be spending so much time writing so much gooseberry fool on forums.

Wow, you're on a roll.

Anyway, wii. Wii!

Ah. The medication's wearing off. Nurse!

That's a pretty bold statement. Can't say I agree with it but I can't disagree with it... As I've not owned every console since the Saturn and I've never owned a Saturn too.

However, whilst I admire what the Wii is trying to do (even just the fact that it's doing something different alone is worthy of some sort of praise), it's just not for me.

I want big flashy graphics, advanced AI, more expansive play areas, jaw-dropping physics, well-developed online features (etc); everything that each new generation of ('normal') consoles brings us. The Wii's controls are technically and theoretically brilliant, but that's never gonna compete with the standard improvements of a new generation.

jamcc wrote:I want big flashy graphics, advanced AI, more expansive play areas, jaw-dropping physics, well-developed online features (etc); everything that each new generation of ('normal') consoles brings us.

Everything that this generation brought us, you mean. I can't think of many previous generations which brought us jaw-dropping physics and well-developed online features, save for a few games on Xbox and one on Dreamcast.

The Wii's controls are technically and theoretically brilliant, but that's never gonna compete with the standard improvements of a new generation.

I don't think it's meant to - that's the point. It's stepping away from the technological arms race. In some ways, Wii's regressing gaming, making it like it used to be before we were really bothered about physics (and I mean really, are we really bothered about physics these days, because that's a bit sad).

Hero of Canton wrote:
If games were as extraordinary and exciting as they should be, people just wouldn't be spending so much time writing so much gooseberry fool on forums.

Wow, you're on a roll.

Really? I would have thought it was the exact opposite. You just have to look at the amount of people who love to post stuff like "It's good, but not that good" to see that the better a game is the more likely someone is going to come in and post gooseberry fool about it just because they can. The majority of people don't actually post stuff on forums and just enjoy "extraordinary and exciting" games, but you will always gets people who want to complain, argue, or bicker for whatever reasons.

As Arv says, such strong "debates" are unique to gaming but then you have to ask "why is it unique to gaming?". I've my own theories on that, and it might make an interesting topic some day.

Hero of Canton wrote:
jamcc wrote:I want big flashy graphics, advanced AI, more expansive play areas, jaw-dropping physics, well-developed online features (etc); everything that each new generation of ('normal') consoles brings us.

Everything that this generation brought us, you mean. I can't think of many previous generations which brought us jaw-dropping physics and well-developed online features, save for a few games on Xbox and one on Dreamcast.

The Wii's controls are technically and theoretically brilliant, but that's never gonna compete with the standard improvements of a new generation.

I don't think it's meant to - that's the point. It's stepping away from the technological arms race. In some ways, Wii's regressing gaming, making it like it used to be before we were really bothered about physics (and I mean really, are we really bothered about physics these days, because that's a bit sad).

Yeah you're right about the online stuff, of course. I never even went online with my Xbox(es). But I don't agree on the graphics and physics (etc). GT3 blew me away with its visuals. I wapped out the old "this looks like real life" statement.

And yeah, of course the Wii is so completely different to the 360/ PS3, it's on a totally different playing field. I meant 'compete' in terms of competing for my interest. Realistic graphics/ physics/ AI (etc) all draw you into a game. How can you get immersed into a game if it looks like it belongs on the PS2 and has a worse understanding of physics than Jade Goody (too soon?).

Crappy AI can be avoided by going online (which is part of the reason why I think racing games are so good online), but then... The Wii doesn't have a proper online division. And no, I'm not saying all Wii games have rubbish AI.. But you get what I mean.

The Alchemist Penguin wrote:
Hero of Canton wrote:
If games were as extraordinary and exciting as they should be, people just wouldn't be spending so much time writing so much gooseberry fool on forums.

Wow, you're on a roll.

Really? I would have thought it was the exact opposite. You just have to look at the amount of people who love to post stuff like "It's good, but not that good" to see that the better a game is the more likely someone is going to come in and post gooseberry fool about it just because they can. The majority of people don't actually post stuff on forums and just enjoy "extraordinary and exciting" games, but you will always gets people who want to complain, argue, or bicker for whatever reasons.

As Arv says, such strong "debates" are unique to gaming but then you have to ask "why is it unique to gaming?". I've my own theories on that, and it might make an interesting topic some day.

You total cocktease. :lol:

Go on, you know you want to...

jamcc wrote:of course the Wii is so completely different to the 360/ PS3, it's on a totally different playing field. I meant 'compete' in terms of competing for my interest. Realistic graphics/ physics/ AI (etc) all draw you into a game. How can you get immersed into a game if it looks like it belongs on the PS2 and has a worse understanding of physics than Jade Goody (too soon?).

Crappy AI can be avoided by going online (which is part of the reason why I think racing games are so good online), but then... The Wii doesn't have a proper online division. And no, I'm not saying all Wii games have rubbish AI.. But you get what I mean.

If the game is well designed enough, it will be absorbing irrespective of graphical prowess - look at the success of games like Nethack and Tower Defence - or even the continuing interest in text adventures/interactive fiction.

Frankly, if all a game has going for it is high resolution textures and ragdolling, I'm likely to start yawning these days.

KKLEIN wrote:
closer wrote:There's something called a real world down here you know !

Unfortunately, you don't seem to be in it. When you've finished having nerd rage & want a proper debate, let me know.

When you post an intelligent and reasoned question and not just an attempt to be a smart arse having a go at other people then let me know. Until then strawberry float right off gooseberry fool for brains !

Hero of Canton wrote:
final-fx wrote:Despite the masses of tat, there are many, many gems on the wii.

I'm with you.

For me, Super Mario Galaxy is the second best game ever, after Super Mario World. There are many superb games on the wii, such as Zelda:TP, Wii Sports, Resi 4, NMH, Fire Emblem, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Okami, Mario Kart, Metroid Prime 3 etc. They might not interest some people, but they're still phenomenal games.

Keep going...

There are many other good games too, such as Mario & Sonic, Pro Evo 2008, Geometry Wars, Wario Land, De Blob, Zack and Wiki, Super Paper Mario, Wario Ware, Bully, both Traume Centre games, Ghost Squad, HOTD: Overkill, Battalion Wars 2 etc.

Preach it, brother!

I would also argue that the Virtual Console/ Wii Ware combo is far superior to XBLA/PSN.

Oh. Er. Not so sure about this one. Particularly given some of the stuff on PSN of late (and coming tomorrow).

I suppose that depends on what you've played before.

I missed out on a lot of the older stuff, so have thoroughly enjoyed Shining Force 1 and 2 (which was one of my favourite games of last year), Super Mario RPG, Secret of Mana, Actraiser , Zelda: OoT etc. I've also replayed games like Super Mario World and Super Metroid. Therefore, I've spent loads of time on these, and would rate the service very highly.

Then, on wiiware, there's the Art Style games (I'm particularly fond of Cubello), World of Goo, Lost Winds, Maboshi, Toki Tori, Final Fantasy CCMLAAK, Onslaught, Strong Bad etc.

The wiiware games on their own probably wouldn't be better than XBLA/PSN (though there is a lot that I haven't tried yet on both of them), but with the VC games as well, I reckon Ninty's service is better.

(edit- I forgot to add that Disaster is a very good retail game, too.)

Agent47 wrote:Nintendo have a responsibility to its fans

How? You paid your money for all those years, and you got some of the finest video games ever made. It seems like a pretty good exchange to me. In fact, if anything you owe THEM for all those hours of AAA entertainment that you got for a relative pittance, especially considering the GC only cost £130 at launch.

Get over yourself. You're not as important as you like to think you are. You are a pathetic minority in the bigger picture. You are a microscopic dot on a microscopic dot lost in the infinite vastness of the universe.

final-fx wrote:I missed out on a lot of the older stuff, so have thoroughly enjoyed Shining Force 1 and 2 (which was one of my favourite games of last year), Super Mario RPG, Secret of Mana, Actraiser , Zelda: OoT etc. I've also replayed games like Super Mario World and Super Metroid. Therefore, I've spent loads of time on these, and would rate the service very highly.

Fair play.

Then, on wiiware, there's the Art Style games (I'm particularly fond of Cubello)

Ah, bless you. You had me at 'Art Style'.

MCN wrote:
Agent47 wrote:Nintendo have a responsibility to its fans

How? You paid your money for all those years, and you got some of the finest video games ever made. It seems like a pretty good exchange to me. In fact, if anything you owe THEM for all those hours of AAA entertainment that you got for a relative pittance, especially considering the GC only cost £130 at launch.

Get over yourself. You're not as important as you like to think you are. You are a pathetic minority in the bigger picture. You are a microscopic dot on a microscopic dot lost in the infinite vastness of the universe.

This, absolutely.

Last edited by still on Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sw26 wrote:I never owned a Saturn so I can't compare, but I do own a Wii and I think it's a good console. Certainly, I agree that it is home to a vast sea of terrible shovelware, but I still enjoy the games I have for it. I bought it at launch very much with the mindset I had when I bought the Gamecube - to buy the good first party Nintendo stuff I can't get elsewhere and have another console alongside it to play the third party stuff (the PS3 in my case). It just so happens that this time around there's much bigger gulf between the Nintendo system and the non-Nintendo systems.

So it's mainly a means by which I can play the first party Nintendo stuff and the third party exclusives I'm interested in, and I also really enjoy it for the Virtual Console seeing as I had a Mega Drive when I was a kid and even then only got a couple of games a year at most and as such missed out on a lot of the classics which I'm now discovering for the first time. So while it's certainly not the best console ever, I think people can be overly harsh on it.

EDIT:

closer wrote:Hang on a minute I've just realised that KKlein is one of those who posts in the wrestling thread - case closed !

Laughable. You complain about KKLEIN's supposed 'lack of intelligence' and then proceed to make an enormous generalisation about a diverse group of posters on the basis of a common interest which you evidently deem to be below your astounding intellect. Really nice irony there.

Sucker ! I posted this deliberately and you are the idiot that fell right into the trap. Despite that there is no reason at to make excuses for the 'wrestling' fraternity - if you really want to watch wrestling go to cumbria, greece or japan. The irony is actually completely lost on you, you pillock ! Sometimes I despair...

It's a fantastic piece of hardware with a well designed interface despite the technical shortcomings inside of it, but it just lacks a wealth of fantastic games.

It has very little to do with 'casual vs hardcore' for me (I hate that latter term so much) as when buying the Wii I knew it was different from the competition and I wanted it to be. I only cared that this brave new world of crazy motion control that would eventually equate to control schemes that would make all other controllers obsolete. In fairness I probably built my expectations up far too high but it has still been mostly disappointing owning my Wii.

That'll probably all change whenever I pick up House of the Dead.

Is the Wii the worst console since the Saturn?

Is the Wii the worst console since the Saturn?

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