Israel-Gaza Conflict

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by Cuttooth » Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:44 am

An exhaustive investigation by +972 Magazine into the Israeli military’s expanded targeting of non-military targets compared to previous wars in Gaza, and their foreknowledge of the collateral damage caused to Palestinian civilians by their strikes.

https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassinati ... bing-gaza/

This is only a small section:

The bombing of power targets, according to intelligence sources who had first-hand experience with its application in Gaza in the past, is mainly intended to harm Palestinian civil society: to “create a shock” that, among other things, will reverberate powerfully and “lead civilians to put pressure on Hamas,” as one source put it.

Several of the sources, who spoke to +972 and Local Call on the condition of anonymity, confirmed that the Israeli army has files on the vast majority of potential targets in Gaza — including homes — which stipulate the number of civilians who are likely to be killed in an attack on a particular target. This number is calculated and known in advance to the army’s intelligence units, who also know shortly before carrying out an attack roughly how many civilians are certain to be killed.

In one case discussed by the sources, the Israeli military command knowingly approved the killing of hundreds of Palestinian civilians in an attempt to assassinate a single top Hamas military commander. “The numbers increased from dozens of civilian deaths [permitted] as collateral damage as part of an attack on a senior official in previous operations, to hundreds of civilian deaths as collateral damage,” said one source.

“Nothing happens by accident,” said another source. “When a 3-year-old girl is killed in a home in Gaza, it’s because someone in the army decided it wasn’t a big deal for her to be killed — that it was a price worth paying in order to hit [another] target. We are not Hamas. These are not random rockets. Everything is intentional. We know exactly how much collateral damage there is in every home.”

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Alvin Flummux
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by Alvin Flummux » Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:41 pm

That section alone is pretty horrifying - the intentional bombing of residences and intended mass murder of innocents, to terrorize the civilian population. It's the definition of state terror.

If they know exactly who is where, they could send in special forces teams to get Hamas leaders, like the Bin Laden raid. That's exactly the kind of thing they train for.

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<]:^D
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by <]:^D » Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:52 pm

yes but that would risk Israeli lives, which is not acceptable...

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Godzilla
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by Godzilla » Tue Dec 05, 2023 4:25 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67628380

Israel probes claims share traders knew of Hamas attack in advance

Israel says it is investigating claims that some investors may have known of Hamas's attack on Israel before it took place on 7 October.

An academic study suggests investors betting against the Israeli economy may have made large sums.

Researchers found significant short-selling in the run-up to the attacks.

Short-selling is when investors try to make money on shares, bonds or other financial instruments that they think will fall in price.

They arrange to sell shares they do not yet own at the current price, hoping to buy them later at a cheaper price before the shares change hands, so they can then bank the difference.

"Days before the attack, traders appeared to anticipate the events to come," say researchers Robert Jackson Jr from New York University and Joshua Mitts of Columbia University.

They said the short-selling "far exceeded the short-selling that occurred during numerous other periods of crisis, including the recession following the financial crisis, the 2014 Israel-Gaza war, and the Covid-19 pandemic".

The researchers said they had identified a dramatic increase in investors seeking to sell shares in Israeli companies on the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange.

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Rocsteady
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by Rocsteady » Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:10 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... dApp_Other

Israel openly committing massacres.

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Alvin Flummux
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by Alvin Flummux » Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:53 pm

Israel is considering flooding the tunnels beneath Gaza with seawater:

Dec 4 (Reuters) - Israel has assembled a large system of pumps that may be used to flood tunnels used by militant group Hamas under the Gaza strip in a bid to drive out fighters, the Wall Street Journal reported on Monday, citing U.S. officials.

Around the middle of November, Israel's army completed the set-up of at least five pumps about a mile north of the Al-Shati refugee camp that could move thousands of cubic meters of water per hour, flooding the tunnels within weeks, the report said.


https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 023-12-05/

This will have unintended consequences - though, Israel must be aware, since this isn't a new strategy. Back in 2015, Egyptian authorities flooded a series of tunnels on their side of the border with seawater, and people in surrounding areas soon complained that the saltwater had made it impossible to grow crops in their area. This will do the same to Gaza, and further pollute the aquifer.

Also, salting the earth is a war crime. Just another one to add to the pile at this point, but worth pointing out anyway.

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by Knoyleo » Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:33 pm

Some horrific stories of the sexual violence used by Hamas on 7th October currently front of the BBC news. I won't quote any here, as it's pretty sickening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67629181

Some of the footage that emerged at the time certainly implied an amount of sexual violence had been inflicted, but it seems like it could have been much more systemic than that.

pjbetman wrote:That's the stupidest thing ive ever read on here i think.
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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by Return_of_the_STAR » Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:42 pm

Knoyleo wrote:Some horrific stories of the sexual violence used by Hamas on 7th October currently front of the BBC news. I won't quote any here, as it's pretty sickening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67629181

Some of the footage that emerged at the time certainly implied an amount of sexual violence had been inflicted, but it seems like it could have been much more systemic than that.


The BBC are finally catching up with the rest of the world who have been aware of this for 2 months now.

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by Return_of_the_STAR » Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:37 am

Double post

Last edited by Return_of_the_STAR on Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by Return_of_the_STAR » Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:38 am

twitter.com/billackman/status/1732179418787783089


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Rocsteady
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by Rocsteady » Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:51 am

Knoyleo wrote:Some horrific stories of the sexual violence used by Hamas on 7th October currently front of the BBC news. I won't quote any here, as it's pretty sickening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67629181

Some of the footage that emerged at the time certainly implied an amount of sexual violence had been inflicted, but it seems like it could have been much more systemic than that.

Jesus strawberry floating christ.

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speedboatchase
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by speedboatchase » Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:49 pm

That BBC article is incredibly disturbing. Somehow even worse than what the Yazidis suffered from ISIS. Unfortunately, the people who need to read it are six weeks deep into conspiracy theories and won’t be swayed. Only yesterday I saw a story with a positive spin on how the child hostage Emily Hand has learned table manners from Hamas captivity!

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Rocsteady
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by Rocsteady » Wed Dec 06, 2023 4:48 pm

speedboatchase wrote:That BBC article is incredibly disturbing. Somehow even worse than what the Yazidis suffered from ISIS. Unfortunately, the people who need to read it are six weeks deep into conspiracy theories and won’t be swayed. Only yesterday I saw a story with a positive spin on how the child hostage Emily Hand has learned table manners from Hamas captivity!

You visit some strawberry floating weird places online.

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<]:^D
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by <]:^D » Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:02 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:

twitter.com/billackman/status/1732179418787783089



wow!

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<]:^D
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by <]:^D » Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:05 pm

great comment just underneath the post:

"Calling for genocide… is not bullying or harassment!?!

If you want to run a simple intellectually test, and hey I didn’t go to Harvard, just replace “Jews” in this question with any other ethic or religious groups.

Fire these fools immediately."

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Hexx
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by Hexx » Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:24 pm

great comment just underneath the post:

"Calling for genocide… is not bullying or harassment!?!

If you want to run a simple intellectually test, and hey I didn’t go to Harvard, just replace “Jews” in this question with any other ethic or religious group


I mean it's not. By literal definition. As they try to explain repeatedly to the Republican trying to simplify things for a "Gotcha" (or present failure to answer as a "gotcha" against liberal elite educators, probably socialist scum to)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/educatio ... ng-israel/

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/05/us/h ... gress.html

Just like "Death to all blacks" isn't bullying or harassment.

It's racial hate speech which would violate a host of issues, but until (for instance) it's targeted and conducted a specific people or groups (e.g. following round a black student chanting it) it can't be bullying and harassment...because there's no one being bullied or harassed even though hate speech is being chanted. It's a critical distinction.

They condemn repeatedly antisemitism throughout the hearing (although there's some fierce back and forth about what constituent criticism of Israel/it's actions and what's genuine antisemitism...you can guess what side the Republican leaning committee is on)

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<]:^D
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by <]:^D » Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:27 pm

you think calling for the genocide of black people wouldnt count as bullying or harassment on a university campus?

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Hexx
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by Hexx » Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:30 pm

<]:^D wrote:you think calling for the genocide of black people wouldnt count as bullying or harassment on a university campus?


Speech on it's own is neither of things by their very definition. Try this simple test. Who's been bullied and harassed? Hell say outloud in your room "Death to all Blacks" (we know you don't mean it). Who've you've bullied and harassed?

You'd break several other rules, potentially even laws, but you wouldn't inherently being bully and harassing people.
It could cross into bullying and harassing (as well as the above) depending on how it was conducted.

The Republicans set that meeting up with agenda - Jews under attack in our schools! - to shut down any protest against Israel. Don't fall for the obvious play.

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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by <]:^D » Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:35 pm

i tried to find Harvard guidelines on free speech etc and found the following: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/faculty-af ... edom-faqs/

Free speech is a legal concept: The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects written and spoken speech, as well as expressive conduct (such as burning a flag) from interference by the government. There are some limitations here: Government can impose some restrictions on the “time, place, and manner” of speech, for instance by requiring permits for a protest march, and certain forms of expression may fall outside the protection of the First Amendment and be subject to regulation, such as defamation, disclosure of classified information, speech that incites violence, and legal obscenity.

In addition, the First Amendment does not apply to private companies or institutions, including private universities such as Harvard.

Freedom of expression is the broad principle that human beings have the right to speak their views. It’s incorporated in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a fundamental human right. It’s important to note that certain forms of expression may be unlawful, such as slander, disclosure of classified information, or incitement to violence.

remember that the question was did calling for genocide "violate the universities code of conduct" - i believe the distinction between action and speech is a misguided distinction in this case.

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<]:^D
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PostRe: Israel-Gaza Conflict
by <]:^D » Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:36 pm

also i had no idea of the Left or Right leaning of the committee or hearing, so i dont believe that comes into my judgement of the university representatives responses at all


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