KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...

Karl wrote:

Pancake wrote:

Denster wrote:The hostility towards vegans stems from their 'holier than thou' attitude and 'self righteous shite that they spout and their willingness to take offence. I don't think it's against all vegans. Just that particular brand of vegan. You know - like Lucien.

That seems to be the standard excuse but it seems a bit rich to accuse someone of being easily offended whilst simultaneously being annoyed at them for having the audacity to express their views.

If you are asking why people are suspicious or dismissive of vegans, I think it is down to them being quite pushy. Veganism is the same as every other life philosophy & religion -- I don't care if you follow it, but I don't want to be preached to.

To put it another way, I get annoyed at evangelical Christians, vegans, and people who go running every other day for the same reason -- they won't shut up about how much 'better' it makes them or their lives.

It's the zeal of the convert. This is how I live my life and you should to.

I don't tell other people to buy expensive earphones or intimidate bus drivers.

Denster wrote:I don't tell other people to buy expensive earphones or intimidate bus drivers.

Did the bus consent to you getting into it? Thought not

Lucien wrote:

Knoyleo wrote:Why are people calling Lucien a vegan, when he clearly isn't, because he eats flesh.

Exactly - you'd think I'd been preaching veganism somewhere. All I've ever been against in this thread is the advert; the idea you can't be against it if you're a meat eater; Preezy's rape joke.

And to a lesser extent, word usage. We do rape and exploit animals, kidnap their children and do all kinds of horrible gooseberry fool guys. Get over the fact or change your diet. And I don't hate anyone who does the former because I've done it. So there is no holier than thou.

No we don't. Stop talking utter bollocks. Animals are not people. Stop equating them. We are not equal.

Lucien wrote:

Knoyleo wrote:Why are people calling Lucien a vegan, when he clearly isn't, because he eats flesh.

Exactly - you'd think I'd been preaching veganism somewhere. All I've ever been against in this thread is the advert; the idea you can't be against it if you're a meat eater; Preezy's rape joke.

And to a lesser extent, word usage. We do rape and exploit animals, kidnap their children and do all kinds of horrible gooseberry fool guys. Get over the fact or change your diet. And I don't hate anyone who does the former because I've done it. So there is no holier than thou.

The point (and it's unbelievable that you can't see it) is that you 100% believe that meat is murder, rape, kidnapping, oppression and exploitation and can't see why it's different between animals and humans.

And yet you eat meat. Which, if you do 100% believe all that, makes you a terrifying psychopath.

If I for one millisecond thought that meat was murder, rape or any of the other things, then I would stop eating it. I wouldn't need to "cut down" (it's not a strawberry floating drug ) I'd stop, there and then.

The fact you need to slowly cut down on something that you believe is the equivalent of the rape, murder and kidnapping of humans is terrifying.

Lucien wrote:We do rape and exploit animals, kidnap their children and do all kinds of horrible gooseberry fool guys. Get over the fact ...

Artificially inseminating a dairy cow is not comparable to raping a human. Killing a calf or a lamb to eat is not comparable to murdering a human child. Your offensive misuse of these highly emotive terms clearly isn't impressing or convincing anyone.

"Artificial insemination makes dairy cows feel uncomfortable, and can lead to soreness if performed too often" is a fact and might be more convincing. "DAIRY IS RAPE" is at best incoherent nonsense and frankly just makes you sound crazy. Why don't you 'get over' that fact?

Quoting these for new page in the hopes they don't get lost:

Denster wrote:No we don't. Stop talking utter bollocks. Animals are not people. Stop equating them. We are not equal.

Moggy wrote:The point (and it's unbelievable that you can't see it) is that you 100% believe that meat is murder, rape, kidnapping, oppression and exploitation and can't see why it's different between animals and humans.

And yet you eat meat. Which, if you do 100% believe all that, makes you a terrifying psychopath.

If I for one millisecond thought that meat was murder, rape or any of the other things, then I would stop eating it. I wouldn't need to "cut down" (it's not a strawberry floating drug ) I'd stop, there and then.

The fact you need to slowly cut down on something that you believe is the equivalent of the rape, murder and kidnapping of humans is terrifying.

Moggy wrote:

Lucien wrote:

Knoyleo wrote:Why are people calling Lucien a vegan, when he clearly isn't, because he eats flesh.

Exactly - you'd think I'd been preaching veganism somewhere. All I've ever been against in this thread is the advert; the idea you can't be against it if you're a meat eater; Preezy's rape joke.

And to a lesser extent, word usage. We do rape and exploit animals, kidnap their children and do all kinds of horrible gooseberry fool guys. Get over the fact or change your diet. And I don't hate anyone who does the former because I've done it. So there is no holier than thou.

The point (and it's unbelievable that you can't see it) is that you 100% believe that meat is murder, rape, kidnapping, oppression and exploitation and can't see why it's different between animals and humans.

And yet you eat meat. Which, if you do 100% believe all that, makes you a terrifying psychopath.

If I for one millisecond thought that meat was murder, rape or any of the other things, then I would stop eating it. I wouldn't need to "cut down" (it's not a strawberry floating drug ) I'd stop, there and then.

The fact you need to slowly cut down on something that you believe is the equivalent of the rape, murder and kidnapping of humans is terrifying.

Personally I hate murdering people it's wrong and evil it's why I have cut my murdering down to just 3 people a week with he occasional kidnapping.

Animals are the real rapists here, they do it without consent all the time. They deserve to be locked up!

Karl wrote:If you are asking why people are suspicious or dismissive of vegans, I think it is down to them being quite pushy. Veganism is the same as every other life philosophy & religion -- I don't care if you follow it, but I don't want to be preached to.

To put it another way, I get annoyed at evangelical Christians, vegans, and people who go running every other day for the same reason -- they won't shut up about how much 'better' it makes them or their lives.

Do you think it's fair to compare veganism to religion? Do you consider them to be similar? Genuine question, I'm just interested to hear what you think!

While Lucien is being, at best, ridiculous, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being conscious of the vast majority of industrial farming practices and the amount of suffering it generates but continuing to eat meat to some degree. Cows aren't being raped (I mean, what the strawberry float?) but the practice of artificial insemination purely so they can continuously produce milk is obviously not natural, and neither to the cow is the sight of its calf being taken away during this process (I'm sure most of us can agree cows have a likely nurturing, protective instinct directed towards their young like most animals do).

Even if most farmed animals are merely sentient rather than sapient (although I believe there's continued dispute over how truly cognitive a lot of animals really are, including livestock and pets), the sheer volume of pain that's required for industrial farming to keep up with people's dietary demands is something I consider to be completely unnecessary, maybe even abhorrently so.

The quantity of meat most people eat now and have got used to eating is far greater than it has ever needed to be, to an unhealthy degree that will likely have considerable impacts on people's health down the line (much of the world is getting a lot fatter already). That coupled with the environmental impact this much farming has in terms of carbon production means I think it's only a good thing for people to be more aware of the origin of the food on their plates, including the welfare of any animals involved, and what alternatives there are to potentially reduce that impact.

I don't feel that's an outlandish or overly emotive attitude to take, and most people probably generally do think of these things to some extent, which is why battery farming for eggs (and the image things like The Happy Egg Company like to promote) isn't generally as accepted as it used to be and standards are better labelled. People generally aren't as aware of the standards chickens are kept in for meat though because the rules for labelling in that situation aren't the same, and haven't caught up to what people might expect.

I have started reducing the amount of meat I eat a fair bit, especially red meat, for a few reasons, mainly to lose weight but also with animal welfare in mind. I realise the arguments surrounding sentience are made by anti-abortionists too but my issue isn't with any animal potentially suffering, more how many have to needlessly.

Pancake wrote:

Karl wrote:If you are asking why people are suspicious or dismissive of vegans, I think it is down to them being quite pushy. Veganism is the same as every other life philosophy & religion -- I don't care if you follow it, but I don't want to be preached to.

To put it another way, I get annoyed at evangelical Christians, vegans, and people who go running every other day for the same reason -- they won't shut up about how much 'better' it makes them or their lives.

Do you think it's fair to compare veganism to religion? Do you consider them to be similar? Genuine question, I'm just interested to hear what you think!

I don't think Karl is directly comparing Religion and Veganism, but the preachy attitude that certain adherents to both can display.

Pancake wrote:

Karl wrote:If you are asking why people are suspicious or dismissive of vegans, I think it is down to them being quite pushy. Veganism is the same as every other life philosophy & religion -- I don't care if you follow it, but I don't want to be preached to.

To put it another way, I get annoyed at evangelical Christians, vegans, and people who go running every other day for the same reason -- they won't shut up about how much 'better' it makes them or their lives.

Do you think it's fair to compare veganism to religion? Do you consider them to be similar? Genuine question, I'm just interested to hear what you think!

Veganism is a life philosophy, not a religion. But its adherents sometimes preach with religious zeal.

I had a patient once who strawberry floated his dog. If that helps.

Cuttooth wrote:...I have started reducing the amount of meat I eat a fair bit, especially red meat, for a few reasons, mainly to lose weight but also with animal welfare in mind...

This is totally reasonable. If you've weighed up what you know about farming, and you've concluded that too many animals are too uncomfortable because of the farming industry, so you want to reduce your support for that industry, then I think that's self-consistent and rational.

Denster wrote:I had a patient once who strawberry floated his dog. If that helps.

I thought we said we would never discuss that here.

That is essentially my position too.

Karl wrote:Veganism is a life philosophy, not a religion. But its adherents sometimes preach with religious zeal.

Some people preach about their love of bacon with similar zeal!

Pancake wrote:

Karl wrote:Veganism is a life philosophy, not a religion. But its adherents sometimes preach with religious zeal.

Some people preach about their love of bacon with similar zeal!

The deliciousness of Bacon is easily demonstrable though.

Pancake wrote:

Karl wrote:Veganism is a life philosophy, not a religion. But its adherents sometimes preach with religious zeal.

Some people preach about their love of bacon with similar zeal!

OK. I am sure they are very annoying as well.

Oh as for the KFC ad, yeah I think's pretty gross really, mainly because it's inferring a standard of chicken that's probably not upheld by KFC themselves.

It reminds me of looking up the welfare standards of Heck sausages on their website, where in response to "are your pigs free range" they felt "actually, pigs don't like the outdoors much in winter so we keep them inside" was an acceptable answer. I'd rather they were upfront about it, which, being a product that looks hipster as strawberry float, I was taken aback by them being so deceitful.