DVD Vs Blu Ray Discussion: My disc is bigger than yours

Ginga wrote:

satriales wrote:
The obvious solution is to split the city into two parts and put each half on a seperate disc. You are more likely to make the required space savings with this method but it would result in a game in which you have to swap discs every time you cross over to the other part of the city and then swap discs again whenever you come back.

Just a thought, but couldn't they provide two discs initially and have the user install the second one to their hard-drive rather than making it a disc-swapping process during the game? That'd make far more sense, surely? I mean, it's pretty much what the GTA DLC is.

Sure, but not every 360 has a HDD.

satriales wrote:

Ginga wrote:

satriales wrote:
The obvious solution is to split the city into two parts and put each half on a seperate disc. You are more likely to make the required space savings with this method but it would result in a game in which you have to swap discs every time you cross over to the other part of the city and then swap discs again whenever you come back.

Just a thought, but couldn't they provide two discs initially and have the user install the second one to their hard-drive rather than making it a disc-swapping process during the game? That'd make far more sense, surely? I mean, it's pretty much what the GTA DLC is.

Sure, but not every 360 has a HDD.

No, I know that, but this is one of those situations where they really do need to tell those people to strawberry float off. MS have to bite the bullet one way or another; either bring out a blu-ray player (oh, the uproar) or make certain games reliant on a HDD.

Anyone who owns a 360 without a HDD has absolutely no right to moan, considering the price you can pick them up for. I also hope they were slapped as they came out the shop for being so God-damn stupid.

"I'll buy a new console but won't get one with a viable means of storage because I don't enjoy buying things I need and I'll also reserve the right to complain when games are made that may need that storage because I do not have it."

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:This isn't the first dev to complain about DVD limitations, only a few weeks ago we had Capcom claiming that the 360 was holding back the development & original scope of Lost Planet 2.

if they know they have no choice, why piss off 360 users by saying it's holding them back?

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:You know as well as I do that will never happen. Why? The backlash against Capcom & LP2 from 360 only owners.

if they know they have no choice, why piss off 360 users by saying it's holding them back?

The Xbox 360 is holding back the games industry and along with Nintendo is slowing it down/end

Ginga wrote:
No, I know that, but this is one of those situations where they really do need to tell those people to **** off. MS have to bite the bullet one way or another; either bring out a blu-ray player (oh, the uproar) or make certain games reliant on a HDD.

i think you're right on the HDD but i also think ms could do a blu ray sku now.. it's cheap enough now.

consolegaming wrote:The Xbox 360 is holding back the games industry and along with Nintendo is slowing it down/end

Skamp.

Trebell wrote:

Ginga wrote:
No, I know that, but this is one of those situations where they really do need to tell those people to **** off. MS have to bite the bullet one way or another; either bring out a blu-ray player (oh, the uproar) or make certain games reliant on a HDD.

i think you're right on the HDD but i also think ms could do a blu ray sku now.. it's cheap enough now.

I can't see that happening - the 360 market is already fragmented with some units lacking HDD. Adding a Blu Ray variant AND Natal would end up in a hopeless mess.

The best solution would be to 'reboot' the 360 and launch the Natal console with an integrated BluRay player, but that won't happen as MS want Natal's bottom line to be as low as possible.

Ginga wrote:

satriales wrote:

Ginga wrote:

satriales wrote:
The obvious solution is to split the city into two parts and put each half on a seperate disc. You are more likely to make the required space savings with this method but it would result in a game in which you have to swap discs every time you cross over to the other part of the city and then swap discs again whenever you come back.

Just a thought, but couldn't they provide two discs initially and have the user install the second one to their hard-drive rather than making it a disc-swapping process during the game? That'd make far more sense, surely? I mean, it's pretty much what the GTA DLC is.

Sure, but not every 360 has a HDD.

No, I know that, but this is one of those situations where they really do need to tell those people to **** off. MS have to bite the bullet one way or another; either bring out a blu-ray player (oh, the uproar) or make certain games reliant on a HDD.

Anyone who owns a 360 without a HDD has absolutely no right to moan, considering the price you can pick them up for. I also hope they were slapped as they came out the shop for being so God-damn stupid.

"I'll buy a new console but won't get one with a viable means of storage because I don't enjoy buying things I need and I'll also reserve the right to complain when games are made that may need that storage because I do not have it."

Hang on a second...Microsoft said they wanted to offer the consumer choice...that was the buzz around the launch of the console and that is what many people applauded when Sony released a system costing the earth. What Microsoft failed to communicate is that to get the most out of the system a HDD would be required.

Moreover, at the time, the people who did buy an Arcade pack would be paying out more than the Premium pack to get the additional HDD. Of course people have the right to moan. As soon as games released with '*HDD Required' Microsoft splintered there own market. That's not the consumers fault.

It is another example of how short-sighted Microsoft were in launching the system. From Microsoft's point-of-view it was exactly the right thing to do...get a cheaper version out there and bundle a HDD with the Premium pack to get the most out of the launch and generate the interest/revenue...but in the long-term it clearly wasn't, especially since all games can now installed to the HDD and the industry is seeing games grow.

EDIT: A reboot would be best for the format but that is still not going to appease Arcade/Core owners that bought a system without a HDD.

cooldawn wrote:
Moreover, at the time, the people who did buy an Arcade pack would be paying out more than the Premium pack to get the additional HDD. Of course people have the right to moan. As soon as games released with '*HDD Required' Microsoft splintered there own market. That's not the consumers fault.

How many DVD based games have been released which require a HDD to play it? I can only think of Football manager off the top of my head.

Actually not having a HDD could be seen as a blessing in disguise, how many developers would have done the mandatory install thing, had they had the option?

Drunken_Master wrote:

cooldawn wrote:
Moreover, at the time, the people who did buy an Arcade pack would be paying out more than the Premium pack to get the additional HDD. Of course people have the right to moan. As soon as games released with '*HDD Required' Microsoft splintered there own market. That's not the consumers fault.

How many DVD based games have been released which require a HDD to play it? I can only think of Football manager on the top of my head.

Actually not having a HDD could be seen as a blessing in disguise, how many developers would have done the mandatory install thing, had they had the option?

All of them?

suzzopher wrote:

Drunken_Master wrote:

cooldawn wrote:
Moreover, at the time, the people who did buy an Arcade pack would be paying out more than the Premium pack to get the additional HDD. Of course people have the right to moan. As soon as games released with '*HDD Required' Microsoft splintered there own market. That's not the consumers fault.

How many DVD based games have been released which require a HDD to play it? I can only think of Football manager on the top of my head.

Actually not having a HDD could be seen as a blessing in disguise, how many developers would have done the mandatory install thing, had they had the option?

All of them?

All of what?

Cooldawn's gonna bum the PS3

Rik's gonna bum the 360

The world keeps on moving. Can we lock this gooseberry fool now?

Drunken_Master wrote:

suzzopher wrote:

Drunken_Master wrote:

cooldawn wrote:
Moreover, at the time, the people who did buy an Arcade pack would be paying out more than the Premium pack to get the additional HDD. Of course people have the right to moan. As soon as games released with '*HDD Required' Microsoft splintered there own market. That's not the consumers fault.

How many DVD based games have been released which require a HDD to play it? I can only think of Football manager on the top of my head.

Actually not having a HDD could be seen as a blessing in disguise, how many developers would have done the mandatory install thing, had they had the option?

All of them?

All of what?

Developers.

Drunken_Master wrote:

cooldawn wrote:
Moreover, at the time, the people who did buy an Arcade pack would be paying out more than the Premium pack to get the additional HDD. Of course people have the right to moan. As soon as games released with '*HDD Required' Microsoft splintered there own market. That's not the consumers fault.

How many DVD based games have been released which require a HDD to play it? I can only think of Football manager off the top of my head.

Actually not having a HDD could be seen as a blessing in disguise, how many developers would have done the mandatory install thing, had they had the option?

There has been more than that. Of the games I own Forza 3 requires a HDD for disc 2 content.

What about trying demos or using custom soundtracks or buying value added content (DLC)? HDD required, right? To get the most out of the majority of games a HDD is required.

Still a blessing in disguise?

HOWEVER it does mean that developers have had to think very carefully about how they pack the content on disc but then that's what Blu-Ray is for.

cooldawn wrote:

Drunken_Master wrote:

cooldawn wrote:
Moreover, at the time, the people who did buy an Arcade pack would be paying out more than the Premium pack to get the additional HDD. Of course people have the right to moan. As soon as games released with '*HDD Required' Microsoft splintered there own market. That's not the consumers fault.

How many DVD based games have been released which require a HDD to play it? I can only think of Football manager off the top of my head.

Actually not having a HDD could be seen as a blessing in disguise, how many developers would have done the mandatory install thing, had they had the option?

There has been more than that. Of the games I own Forza 3 requires a HDD for disc 2 content.

What about trying demos or using custom soundtracks or buying value added content (DLC)? HDD required, right? To get the most out of the majority of games a HDD is required.

Still a blessing in disguise?

HOWEVER it does mean that developers have had to think very carefully about how they pack the content on disc but then that's what Blu-Ray is for.

It's just a shame that Blu Ray reads so slowly.

cooldawn wrote:

Rik wrote:

Calling you out here because we all know that is utter bullshit. Games that require an install are generally games that have been coded early in the systems life-cycle or developers that can't be bothered to put in the effort...it has absolutely nothing to do with the technology. Many games...in fact many/all (can't be arsed to check) Sony 1st party titles...you know, those ones that are actually pushing the hardware...seldom require an install.

I just can't believe you even considered saying that

Calling me out , I just had Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 and Heavy Rain in the last two weeks, both require installs.

Were they programmed early in the systems life? So believe, I said it and it's true.

So what about Uncharted 2 or God of War III? Massive games...in terms of raw data...that pushed the system yet no install. Maybe though you are suggesting that previously released games couldn't be re-engineered to run without an install...which would be ridiculous, right.

The newest Ratchet also required an install, did it not? New games like Bioshock 2 and Battlefield Bad Company 2 have them. Assassin's Creed II, also. It's only a small minority of PS3 games that don't require them, including some of the first party stuff, but given that other first party games (Heavy Rain, as Rik mentioned) do still require the install, it's hardly laziness.

Let's just call it, shall we?: Your "point" is ass.

As for this LA Noire thing, it does look like we're moving towards the tipping point for a small number of big-budget games, where disc space becomes an issue. But Red Dead Redemption's on one disc, so for sandbox games it's all about the way early production works. In LA Noire's case, it seems to have been designed as a PS3 game, hence the problems.

But it's hardly harming developers, is it? You really need a mega-budget game with extreme scope to run into issues, and to not have planned it very well.

Mass Effect 2 is the best game I've ever played, and that came on 2 DVDs. The swapping didn't matter one bit. If I was Rockstar, I'd spread the cutscenes and mission data over a couple of discs, with the "world data" on both, so there could be a clean swap.

cooldawn wrote:

There has been more than that. Of the games I own Forza 3 requires a HDD for disc 2 content.

You can play the game without a hard-drive though.

What about trying demos

Xbox magazines?

or using custom soundtracks or buying value added content (DLC)? HDD required, right? To get the most out of the majority of games a HDD is required.

Those gamers who want to do that, should have bought a 360 with hard-drive. However, believe it or not, there are gamers who aren't particularly bothered about custom soundtracks or extra DLC. And believe it or not, have no intention of connecting their machines to the tinternet. For those, the arcade SKU would be more than adequate. My brother for instance, has no intention of connecting his 360 to LIVE.

Not all gamers are like you.

suzzopher wrote:It's just a shame that Blu Ray reads so slowly.

Yeah...people do say that but then it doesn't matter these days. The way I understand it is that the PS3 reads, processes and outputs the information very quickly. As I said before Uncharted 2 and God of War III seem to lead the way...showing that the tech inside PS3 is more than capable of providing AAA games without any concessions.

At the end of the day it's up to the other developers to get on-track. I can understand where costs impede progress but I can't understand why people are saying this and that can't be done on PS3 when, clearly, it is doing it.

cooldawn wrote:Games get bigger...more space required. Who'd of thought.

Bigger, eh?

Is now a bad time to point out that David Braben and Iain Bell squeezed 8 galaxies into an 8 bit machine?

TheTurnipKing wrote:

cooldawn wrote:Games get bigger...more space required. Who'd of thought.

Bigger, eh?

Is now a bad time to point out that David Braben and Iain Bell squeezed 8 galaxies into an 8 bit machine?

Did those machines have aslow, sequential based storage media? If so, then that's your answer!!!