Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour de France titles for doping

Yes yes yes that's all very high minded and proper but it isn't that simple! Who gets the titles if Armstrong is stripped?

EDIT: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... itles.html

The majority of them are strawberry floating cheats and/or cheating.

This is why the Olypmics drug testing body is trying to extend the statute of limitations, because the drugs are one step ahead of the testing, and it take a while to catch up with the drugs being used.

Even in the UFC, fighters know how to cycle on and off steroids. They get caught making stupid mistakes when they get tested randomly or when they didn't cycle the roids out of their system efficiently enough, or their new designer drug that was previously untraceable, is now traceable.

Drug testing will always be behind the cheaters. So just stripping people of titles is not gunna fix the situation.

with sucess comes great jeliously just saying just saying.

Corazon de Leon

Jax wrote:RIP. First man on the Moon.

Dude, like five posts above yours. :lol:

Rapper wrote:with sucess comes great jeliously just saying just saying.

I know what you mean. Truly, he took drugs better than any other cyclist of his generation.

Denster wrote:He was a cheat. He fully deserves to be stripped of his titles. I don't know why there is even a debate about it. The US decision to strip him should have been immediately ratified by all the other cycling authorities.

The fact that the US agency haven't shown any of their evidence might have something to do with why nobody else has joined them yet.

Denster wrote:He was a cheat. He fully deserves to be stripped of his titles. I don't know why there is even a debate about it. The US decision to strip him should have been immediately ratified by all the other cycling authorities.

The USADA isn't a cycling authority. WADA says the titles should be stripped but neither organisations have the power to do so.

He may or may not be a cheat, but until the evidence is disclosed the lack of a challenge does not amount to proof in my eyes. And until the evidence is released I think WADA and the USADA are stretching their credibility.

Denster wrote:He was a cheat. He fully deserves to be stripped of his titles. I don't know why there is even a debate about it. The US decision to strip him should have been immediately ratified by all the other cycling authorities.

Well, there's a debate because (i) there's as yet no direct evidence in the public domain of his doping and (ii) the regulator in question, USADA, has done some dubious things in order to bring the case to this point, including granting both immunity and anonymity to the "witnesses" who were to testify against him. These are both pretty fundamental points.

That said, although it pains me greatly to say it, I agree that by his walking away from the fight, the only tenable conclusion is that Armstrong was guilty and has scrambled for the only moral high ground that was still available to him. It's a great shame.

Pancake wrote:Yes yes yes that's all very high minded and proper but it isn't that simple! Who gets the titles if Armstrong is stripped?

EDIT: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... itles.html

Wow, must be pretty gooseberry fool for people following that sport

Rapper wrote:with sucess comes great jeliously just saying just saying.

Your spelling of one particular word in that sentence is simply lovely.

IMO, the whole thing is a sham. I'll try my best to explain.

The reason this has been able to happen, is because USADA offer a sort of 'get out free' clause to the cyclists who are throwing Lance's name in for being a drug treat. The cyclists who are doing so are all drug cheats. Dropping him in it, even though they have no physical evidence that he took drugs through actual tests in blood and urine, merely their word, will allow them to continue cycling professionally.

This has to be the most ridiculous, flawed, unfair system. Lance's final statement on the matter was courageous, he'll continue to do what he now deems more important, work with his Livestrong charity.

Not sure if anyone has linked to his statement yet, but it is a very important read if you are interested this story.

http://lancearmstrong.com/news-events/lance-armstongs-statement-of-august-23-2012

The bottom line is I played by the rules that were put in place by the UCI, WADA and USADA when I raced. The idea that athletes can be convicted today without positive A and B samples, under the same rules and procedures that apply to athletes with positive tests, perverts the system and creates a process where any begrudged ex-teammate can open a USADA case out of spite or for personal gain or a cheating cyclist can cut a sweetheart deal for themselves. It’s an unfair approach, applied selectively, in opposition to all the rules. It’s just not right.

An absolute farce. Completely embarrassing that it has come to Lance getting sick of the constant hounding and having to basically say, fine, stuff it. Despite absolutely no evidence other than the word of a group of actual, proven drug cheats, he's had his rightful medals taken away. Despicable.

Lance Armstrong says Lance Armstrong is totally innocent, as reported by lancearmstrong.com. Compelling evidence.

emilythestrange wrote:An absolute farce. Completely embarrassing that it has come to Lance getting sick of the constant hounding and having to basically say, fine, stuff it. Despite absolutely no evidence other than the word of a group of actual, proven drug cheats, he's had his rightful medals taken away. Despicable.

There are all the quotes from Lance in the past saying how he would never, ever quit. But now he has, just as many of his ex team mates were going to go on the record in court about him. Hmmm.

On Livestrong for a second, there was a very interesting article this year about how the charity seems to exist more as an entity to promote Lance and defend him against the allegations than actually giving money to fund cancer research:

http://fraudbytes.blogspot.com.au/2012/ ... n.html?m=1

Tineash wrote:Lance Armstrong says Lance Armstrong is totally innocent, as reported by lancearmstrong.com. Compelling evidence.

Are you just trolling or do I have to point out to you what is actually significant about that statement?

Does it not bother you in the slightest that the only evidence against Lance is word from proven drug treats suddenly declaring him a cheat, and by doing so, despite lacking any shred of real evidence, will still be allowed to cycle professionally? Does it not bother you that the case against him is completely biased in favor of people who we know have definitely cheated? Does it not bother you that he can loose medals having never, ever failed a drugs test? Having never failed to submit or comply to having drugs tests? Oh wait that's right, because it's Lance writing a statement it's obviously all bullshit, it would be best to ignore anything he has to say about the case against him. Never mind then.

@Eighthours Do you mean professionally? He's not quitting cycling as a hobby, at least. He's quitting a fight against a bunch of cheats.

Wait no proof ? Well then no . I believe don't doesn't mean gooseberry fool

emilythestrange, armstrong refuses to defend himself because he will almost certainly be found guilty.

here was his options:-

a) be found guilty of blood doping after repeatedly denying it for a decade. stripped of achievements and everyone knows conclusively that he cheated.

or

b) refuse to put up a fight anymore. stripped of achievements but can continue to go on about how he "never failed a test" in an attempt to cast doubt on his guilt.

So how do they find him guilty when he hasn't failed or skipped any tests?

He'll only be found guilty by this system because it trusts the word of known cheats over his, and over actual tests. Why would you bother to go through defending yourself in a system that puts a cheats word in front of yours when you haven't failed any of the tests you had to take?

emilythestrange wrote:@Eighthours Do you mean professionally? He's not quitting cycling as a hobby, at least. He's quitting a fight against a bunch of cheats.

No, I mean in terms of giving up the fight to clear his name. Which he said he would never do, and had some choice words over what he thought of quitters. I'm sure he thought he'd be found guilty... but even that wouldn't have stopped him before. He would have fought on if he was innocent - he's going against everything he's ever said on this issue. What's different in this case is that he would have been condemned by multiple ex team mates, and I strongly suspect that him quitting is just to introduce an air of ambiguity over his guilt, an ambiguity that his supporters are now seizing upon.

In conclusion, Armstrong is very clever. He has managed to position himself as a wronged fall guy, and there are many people who will believe him. Personally I think he's guilty as hell because he has gone against his previous statements for personal advantage.

emilythestrange wrote:So how do they find him guilty when he hasn't failed or skipped any tests?

He'll only be found guilty by this system because it trusts the word of known cheats over his, and over actual tests. Why would you bother to go through defending yourself in a system that puts a cheats word in front of yours when you haven't failed any of the tests you had to take?

But if he was innocent I don't understand why he wouldn't do the tests to prove it. Why would he not want to clear his name, as opposed to just denying it?

PaperMacheMario wrote:
emilythestrange wrote:So how do they find him guilty when he hasn't failed or skipped any tests?

He'll only be found guilty by this system because it trusts the word of known cheats over his, and over actual tests. Why would you bother to go through defending yourself in a system that puts a cheats word in front of yours when you haven't failed any of the tests you had to take?

But if he was innocent I don't understand why he wouldn't do the tests to prove it. Why would he not want to clear his name, as opposed to just denying it?

Even if he was not innocent, that's the biggest bullshit stance to ever take on any matter.

Lance Armstrong stripped of Tour de France titles for doping

Who is online

Affiliates