Vermilion wrote:Tafdolphin wrote:not to mention zero (literally zero) significant black characters
This is the second time i've seen you comment on a production being too white (the previous being Notting Hill), and i find it rather bizarre.
It would be like me watching Fresh Prince, only to comment that there's a lack of significant white characters (which is something i'd never do).
Just seems kinda odd.
So, I suppose my response is twofold:
a) Why do you think it's odd? This is a genuine question.
b) The Fresh Prince example is something of a false equivalency.
The first is self explanatory, but I'd like to delve into the second.
The representation of white and African-american cultures is not equal in Western media. The vast majority of programming and movies were and are based around white cultural tropes, and more often than not positions white people as the main focus of their narratives.
Because of the domination of white cultural representation in media, citing an example of one counter example is not divesting the majority of western media from its inherent bias towards white representation. When you set a sitcom in the midst of the most diverse city on the planet and 100% of the returning cast are white, that's not the same as having a sitcom explicitly about a black family and stating there are no white characters.
The Fresh Prince, by having a narrative hook that focused explicitly on a minority family, was
entirely about representation, representation of a neglected cultural viewpoint. Therefore, stating there were no white characters in a sitcom specifically geared towards the representation of a non-white demographic is, I feel, a moot point and certainly not comparable to Friends' lack of diversity and, say it one more time, representation.
more heat than light wrote:The 'zero black characters' thing doesn't bother me to be honest. It's entirely plausible that a group of white friends hang around with white people and have solely white families. At least you can't accuse it of tokenism.
The gay jokes are obviously not great, while watching I just tend to not laugh and move on. I don't think any of it is overly nasty, it's just a bit insensitive and wouldn't even be considered these days. I was watching an episode the other day where Joey's girlfriend is beating him up and everyone mocks him about it, which was pretty gross.
And this is where this all comes into practice in a very real way.
I'm going to guess here, and apologies if I'm wrong, that you're a white, straight man. None of these issues, casual homophobia, lack of diversity and representation, affect you personally because you are a part of the dominant culture in western society.
People who identify as homosexual, people of colour, trans people; all are less likely to be able to simply ignore these jokes, or not be bothered by them, because these are jokes at their expense.
It is your privilege as a white, straight man to be able to state that the jokes don't bother you. Instead what we should be thinking about is whether they bother those people less represented in this culture in which we have won the genetic lottery.
Finally, I'm not saying that Friends is the worst. I'm not saying that every black or gay person who watches Friends would immediately be offended. All I'm saying is that some jokes have aged badly, and the lack of representation is different to what we'd expect today and I do not think there's anything odd in pointing this out.
Apologies too for singling you both out, Vermillion and MHTL, you were simply the closest examples to hand! For what its worth, I do exactly the same as you MHTL and just plough through the rough parts. I still think it's important to recognise how this is very much a luxury however.