Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword HD | NSW | Out now!

Robbo-92 wrote:

ITSMILNER wrote:Problem is, Pokemon this year will be another remake if rumours are to be believed. We could get a 2D Metroid this year at least.

In Pokémon’s defence, they’ve been on a similar pattern of, new generation game, remake and possibly a 3rd version in the same generation, new generation for a good while now. So Diamond/Pearl remakes make sense really going on their previous remakes completed.

ITSMILNER wrote:

Green Gecko wrote:

Balladeer wrote:I hate Nintendo’s policy of charging money for old and largely unchanged rope, I hate that people buy into it (self included at times) and therefore encourage them to do it more, and while I don’t hate Skyward Sword (it’s an 8/10 game) it’s probably my least favourite 3D Zelda. I won’t be picking it up.

I also think the best thing about it is the motion controls, and anybody planning to play it with standard controls who isn’t disabled or only owns a Lite is cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Yeah, this is everyone's policy nowadays though. Only Nintendo make more noise about it, when everyone is hoping for them to announce something new. That's the difference.

See: HD collection / HD remaster / HD xyz / "definitive edition" over the past 10+ years at least.

They did do a pretty good job on Wind Waker and Twilight Princess HD. It was Mario that was weak. Does anyone know if the same studio is handling this? I think Wind Waker was done in house but TP was an external studio with Nintedo production, pretty much nothing was left untouched.

Both remakes of the N64 games were fantastic as well. Those really were transformed games in many ways.

Wasn’t the Mario collection just handled by their emulation team? The ones that work on the VC stuff, would explain why it was so poor and bare bones. No idea who is handling SS HD though, maybe it’s a portion of the Zelda team.

It’d be nice to think it’s Grezzo, they’ve done well (for the most part) with porting older Zelda games to modern consoles in the past.

Apparently Grezzo are working on the Miitopia port so I don’t know if they are big enough to handle 3 projects. Could be Tantalus? They did Twilight Princess HD and we have not heard from them in a while.

ITSMILNER wrote:

Robbo-92 wrote:

ITSMILNER wrote:Problem is, Pokemon this year will be another remake if rumours are to be believed. We could get a 2D Metroid this year at least.

In Pokémon’s defence, they’ve been on a similar pattern of, new generation game, remake and possibly a 3rd version in the same generation, new generation for a good while now. So Diamond/Pearl remakes make sense really going on their previous remakes completed.

ITSMILNER wrote:

Green Gecko wrote:

Balladeer wrote:I hate Nintendo’s policy of charging money for old and largely unchanged rope, I hate that people buy into it (self included at times) and therefore encourage them to do it more, and while I don’t hate Skyward Sword (it’s an 8/10 game) it’s probably my least favourite 3D Zelda. I won’t be picking it up.

I also think the best thing about it is the motion controls, and anybody planning to play it with standard controls who isn’t disabled or only owns a Lite is cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Yeah, this is everyone's policy nowadays though. Only Nintendo make more noise about it, when everyone is hoping for them to announce something new. That's the difference.

See: HD collection / HD remaster / HD xyz / "definitive edition" over the past 10+ years at least.

They did do a pretty good job on Wind Waker and Twilight Princess HD. It was Mario that was weak. Does anyone know if the same studio is handling this? I think Wind Waker was done in house but TP was an external studio with Nintedo production, pretty much nothing was left untouched.

Both remakes of the N64 games were fantastic as well. Those really were transformed games in many ways.

Wasn’t the Mario collection just handled by their emulation team? The ones that work on the VC stuff, would explain why it was so poor and bare bones. No idea who is handling SS HD though, maybe it’s a portion of the Zelda team.

It’d be nice to think it’s Grezzo, they’ve done well (for the most part) with porting older Zelda games to modern consoles in the past.

Apparently Grezzo are working on the Miitopia port so I don’t know if they are big enough to handle 3 projects. Could be Tantalus? They did Twilight Princess HD and we have not heard from them in a while.

Didn’t realise they were handling Miitopia, Tantalus could be a good option then.

I’ll be getting this, will be nice to play it without the motion controls

OrangeRKN wrote:I'd say Skyward Sword is the diametrically opposite Zelda to Breath of the Wild - linear, story driven and dungeon focused, where BOTW is open world exploration. I think they complement each other quite well!

Yeah, I know I've said this a few times now (I think out of hope) but I wonder if people might appreciate this on its own terms now that BotW (and soon BotW 2) exist to sate their exploratory urges.

I also - genuinely - wonder if many people played as if playing Wii Sports or something, with big forearm movements like in tennis as opposed to wrist flicks like badminton. I hate forearm clunkiness. But with arms akimbo and wrist flick precision I thought Skyward Sword felt like an evolution of control, enough micro-beats and close attention to feel engaged, but still abstract and simplified enough to work as a fun game without VR-style 1:1 literalism.

In general I think this is a Zelda game that has its eyes fixed on what's up-close and in-front of you, as opposed to the long-sightedness of something like BotW. Instead here Link takes up lots of screen real estate, and environments feel like discreet enclaves in a wider, unknown world. The game is immediate and built around control beats - often more like a Mario, and perhaps a linear one at that - instead of being rangier and built around the fun of long-form (but slightly more distanced in gameplay terms) traversal through new areas.

Less objective is that I love the game's art style and music and general heart. More than any other Zelda it feels romantic, not just in the Link-Zelda dynamic (though that is sweeter here than anywhere else) but also in its vision of the world, with its pastel-greens speckled with pinks and purples, and its lush score with strings and swells as opposed to BotW's atmosphere of environmental sounds and sparse piano refrains.

It's not the Zelda people wanted at the time, and so may well be the last of its type, ever. But taken for what it is I think it nails its intended goals and then some. I hope people give it another chance, and play it with their wrist!

(I'm tempted to write a PSA article before it comes out or something, so keen am I for people to be open to what it sets out to do! Though I don't want to Zeldasplain and patronise. But it's nice to share things you love, and though it might be more a specific taste than other Zeldas, if it can land right for you it's a real treat)

Then again, I might just play it again and think it's gooseberry fool and dated. Who knows!

Great post deathofcows

I agree with most if not all of your observations

deathofcows wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:I'd say Skyward Sword is the diametrically opposite Zelda to Breath of the Wild - linear, story driven and dungeon focused, where BOTW is open world exploration. I think they complement each other quite well!

Yeah, I know I've said this a few times now (I think out of hope) but I wonder if people might appreciate this on its own terms now that BotW (and soon BotW 2) exist to sate their exploratory urges.

My only thought to the contrary (having not played it since BOTW so not knowing myself) is whether some of Skyward Sword's innovations will appear less innovative coming back from BOTW, perhaps even unnoticed. I've always thought Skyward Sword was very successful is blending established Zelda tropes with new (for the series) ideas, but some of those like the stamina bar and sailcloth became core elements of BOTW. I like the stamina bar in Skyward Sword, it speeds you between encounters and helps the action focus, but if you compare it to the completely integrated stamina-climbing system of BOTW it might look underutilised? My girlfriend's first and so far only 3D Zelda was BOTW and for her I imagine the stamina bar will just be expected and won't be of any note at all, which I think is weird!

deathofcows wrote:Less objective is that I love the game's art style and music and general heart. More than any other Zelda it feels romantic, not just in the Link-Zelda dynamic (though that is sweeter here than anywhere else) but also in its vision of the world, with its pastel-greens speckled with pinks and purples, and its lush score with strings and swells as opposed to BotW's atmosphere of environmental sounds and sparse piano refrains.

Out of interest what kind of screen did you play it on originally? I've mentioned it before but when I played Skyward Sword it was still on a portable 15" CRT. The watercolour like art style seemed to suit that so well, not wanting the sharpness of high definition, the analogue smearing of a CRT actually helping the background become indistinct like an actual impressionist painting. I'm not convinced HD will be a problem per-se, but I'm also not convinced that extra sharpness will bring anything to an art style that's trying to be indistinct.

The characters might fare better as they are more cel shaded than the environments to make them pop, but it does seem like the opposite problem to Wind Waker. That still looks fantastic because it is so clean and flat (I'm trying to avoid using the word "sharp" again ). Seeing the edges in Skyward Sword might sort of ruin it.

Skyward Sword is great. Will I get the remaster, depends how much they add, but I'll probably pick it up second hand

One type of person Skyward Sword should satisfy is those that played BOTW and missed good quality dungeons.

I'm not sure ill get this but will definitely get The Wind Waker.

10 years later I have pretty mixed opinions on this game. The increased focus on setpieces while trying to retain the feeling of exploration via backtracking doesn't work well together when it comes to the overworld; it feels like an attempt at making Zelda into a 3D metroidvania, but the interconnectedness of the world doesn't go far enough to make this work. Dungeons themselves are largely good and allow for the setpieces to take centre stage. This game was released two months after Dark Souls, which successfully ported this format into a 3D action game.

My issues with the structure and design of this game will almost certainly not be changed by this remaster, but I am willing to give the combat a more fair shot than I did orginally, and full camera control will be a welcome addition. That being said, I refuse to pay full price for a remaster of a game I already own. I have some qualms with the graphical style; at the time I thought it would benefit from a HD upscale/being rendered in HD. This hasn't quite turned out the way I thought; character models generally look pretty great but environmental textures for sure could use more work.

*quotes vla in a skyward sword thread*

VlaSoul wrote:it feels like an attempt at making Zelda into a 3D metroidvania

I've always thought this was already what 3D Zelda is. Skyward Sword is explicitly more linear so if anything less metroidvania-like.

VlaSoul wrote:at the time I thought it would benefit from a HD upscale/being rendered in HD. This hasn't quite turned out the way I thought; character models generally look pretty great but environmental textures for sure could use more work.

Pretty much exactly my fear for the art style!

OrangeRKN wrote:*quotes vla in a skyward sword thread*

an eternal tradition

OrangeRKN wrote:

VlaSoul wrote:it feels like an attempt at making Zelda into a 3D metroidvania

I've always thought this was already what 3D Zelda is. Skyward Sword is explicitly more linear so if anything less metroidvania-like.

The way I'd define Metroidvania is open world but with no specific hub and areas connecting to each other, as well as looping in on each other. In addition there's no distinction between dungeon and overworld. Zelda tends to have a hub focused design in the overworld, and while the dungeons are more metroidvania like, they're self contained. Skyward sword is linear but 3D Zelda in general was before BotW; I used to hate SS for this but I find the idea at least interesting now. The overworld in SS essentially plays like a dungeon which imo makes it more metroidvania like. I'd be interested in a Zelda game that did this on a larger scale; like the whole overworld would be structured like that but seamlessly instead of having loading screens like SS does, as well as less setpiece focused.

OrangeRKN wrote:

VlaSoul wrote:at the time I thought it would benefit from a HD upscale/being rendered in HD. This hasn't quite turned out the way I thought; character models generally look pretty great but environmental textures for sure could use more work.

Pretty much exactly my fear for the art style!

Nintendo's been pretty lazy with these remasters man, it doesn't look anywhere near as bad as the TP port but it could use a wind waker HD style treatment.

I mean, I think WWHD looks worse than the original

FWIW I think Skyloft is a really good hub (especially the bazaar as a one-stop-shop to rest-and-restock). Everything on the surface is a dungeon or extension of a dungeon, but there is that distinction between dungeons and the (literal) overworld. Outside of Skyloft itself that overworld is noticeably empty, the one advantage of that being it can't distract you. But yes, Skyloft is one of my favourite Zelda towns. I think the character designs are especially strong.

One thing I doubt will stand up in the transition to HD is the distant haze a few areas seemed to have which really helped the art style stand out.

Character wise Skyward Sword is one of the best in the series. Link, Zelda and even side characters like Groose are so amazing and it's really nice following their story from start to finish. I'm looking forward to trying this again.

Qikz wrote:Character wise Skyward Sword is one of the best in the series. Link, Zelda and even side characters like Groose are so amazing and it's really nice following their story from start to finish. I'm looking forward to trying this again.

Yeah, they have so much personality. This is a big part of the game's charm for me.

It's also the only Zelda game where Link x Zelda is the OTP!

OrangeRKN wrote:My only thought to the contrary (having not played it since BOTW so not knowing myself) is whether some of Skyward Sword's innovations will appear less innovative coming back from BOTW, perhaps even unnoticed. I've always thought Skyward Sword was very successful is blending established Zelda tropes with new (for the series) ideas, but some of those like the stamina bar and sailcloth became core elements of BOTW. I like the stamina bar in Skyward Sword, it speeds you between encounters and helps the action focus, but if you compare it to the completely integrated stamina-climbing system of BOTW it might look underutilised? My girlfriend's first and so far only 3D Zelda was BOTW and for her I imagine the stamina bar will just be expected and won't be of any note at all, which I think is weird!

Out of interest what kind of screen did you play it on originally? I've mentioned it before but when I played Skyward Sword it was still on a portable 15" CRT. The watercolour like art style seemed to suit that so well, not wanting the sharpness of high definition, the analogue smearing of a CRT actually helping the background become indistinct like an actual impressionist painting. I'm not convinced HD will be a problem per-se, but I'm also not convinced that extra sharpness will bring anything to an art style that's trying to be indistinct.

I reckon the stamina meter will still enliven things, because it adds pacing and requires attention. I suppose it's a bit like an on-the-flat equivalent to jump button hold time variation in platformers, in that it adds flex and variation that feels interesting to control.

Especially because of the silent realm sections, in which the stamina meter (especially when seen!) has more stakes and adds more urgent tension than any climbing section in BotW?

Side-note: a macro, game-length version of pace variation is also added by stuff like the silent realm bits, in which the quality and mode of play is suddenly different. Whereas the seamless continuity of BotW can also be a bit of a flattening? (I know I've said this kind of thing before! And it may be a taste thing. I also like sudden musical change ups and drops...)

Wrt: the art style, I initially player through the game using component cable which I guess is as good resolution and clarity as was possible then. And I thought it looked gorgeous when clear, I remember the step change step up when I switched to component and it was a positive one. Especially because the dappling of textures and background blurriness remained, I think you get the best of both?

Tomous wrote:One type of person Skyward Sword should satisfy is those that played BOTW and missed good quality dungeons.

I really think those people should wait for TPHD. Not only does Skyward Sword have fewer dungeons (counting ‘actual’ dungeons and not the overworld), I found them a lot worse coming off TP. Dungeon 3 in particular I recall as being dull and flat, and then they repeated the feel of dungeons 2 and 3 for 5 and 6. I remember playing dungeon 4 which was brilliant and thinking, ‘Oh wow, here comes the build-up!’ Then it didn’t happen. In particular there were no new enemies introduced after dungeon 4, and dungeons 1 and 4 had the only good bosses.

The beetle was great though, I’ll give ‘em that.