MCU Thread 2

[Captain Kinopio]

I guess.

But they did spend that entire last episode talking about the lack of free will.

Also the whole multiverse / timeline thing is really weird. I’m not sure it makes any sense. He Who Remains spends ages talking about the fact there were a bunch of multiverses before the war and he unified them into one. But that then doesn’t really explain how there can be different versions of Loki which don’t look like Tom Hiddleston.

[Tomous]

I guess.

But they did spend that entire last episode talking about the lack of free will.

Also the whole multiverse / timeline thing is really weird. I’m not sure it makes any sense. He Who Remains spends ages talking about the fact there were a bunch of multiverses before the war and he unified them into one. But that then doesn’t really explain how there can be different versions of Loki which don’t look like Tom Hiddleston.

There are still multiple timelines but they all must follow the sacred timeline. Deviations can happen within those timelines to an allowed limit but if a variation is too big and causes a nexus event and braches then it must be pruned. This means you can have different types of Loki across different timelines as long as their timeline doesn't vary far enough away from the Sacred timeline.

The Sacred timeline is He Who Remains way of ensuring the multiverse war doesn't happen by strictly controlling how timelines develop.

[shy guy 64]

I guess.

But they did spend that entire last episode talking about the lack of free will.

Also the whole multiverse / timeline thing is really weird. I’m not sure it makes any sense. He Who Remains spends ages talking about the fact there were a bunch of multiverses before the war and he unified them into one. But that then doesn’t really explain how there can be different versions of Loki which don’t look like Tom Hiddleston.

in episode 3 sylvie claims that the universe seeks chaos given the implication that reality rebels against the sacred timeline creating the non hiddelston lokis

[Captain Kinopio]

But at what point is a non Hiddleston Loki just another person. You’d think to be Loki he would have to be from the same lineage and raised on Asgard, which begs the question where and when is this happening. It makes no sense as a single timeline with branches. Multiverse is perfectly fine but they make it clear that’s not what is going on. How is that alligator Loki a variant on the sacred timeline and not from a different universe.

[OrangeRKN]

Also the whole multiverse / timeline thing is really weird. I’m not sure it makes any sense. He Who Remains spends ages talking about the fact there were a bunch of multiverses before the war and he unified them into one. But that then doesn’t really explain how there can be different versions of Loki which don’t look like Tom Hiddleston.

Don't get hung up on this. Get hung up on the TVA existing outside of time but also clearly having its own linear progression through time, where somehow nexus events happening at various points throughout time can be made to all happen at the same time from the perspective of the TVA timeline...

Sylvie's plan to attack the TVA was literally built around setting off nexus events concurrently so that the TVA were overwhelmed with nexus events to react to, and I just don't want to begin trying to understand that

[Tomous]

I assumed alligator Loki wasn't born an alligator and was instead turned into one after some misadventure. It makes more sense that way...

[Miguel007]

Really enjoyed Loki I thought the first episode was great, then slow for two episodes and then went out on a high note towards the end. 6/10.

I’ve got a wacky thought, I think Matt Damon is the alligator Loki. He played Loki in a play [Uncredited in the Film] in Thor Ragnarok and he’s also in the upcoming Thor: Love and Thunder playing Actor Loki, it would be a great callback and joke to use a Hollywood A-Lister like that.

[Qikz]

I assumed alligator Loki wasn't born an alligator and was instead turned into one after some misadventure. It makes more sense that way...

In the comics there's multiple universes with lots of animals, one is spider-ham's universe where everyone is an animal and the other is home to the Pet Avengers including Throg. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-8311 https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-97161

[BID0]

Also the whole multiverse / timeline thing is really weird. I’m not sure it makes any sense. He Who Remains spends ages talking about the fact there were a bunch of multiverses before the war and he unified them into one. But that then doesn’t really explain how there can be different versions of Loki which don’t look like Tom Hiddleston.

Don't get hung up on this. Get hung up on the TVA existing outside of time but also clearly having its own linear progression through time, where somehow nexus events happening at various points throughout time can be made to all happen at the same time from the perspective of the TVA timeline...

Sylvie's plan to attack the TVA was literally built around setting off nexus events concurrently so that the TVA were overwhelmed with nexus events to react to, and I just don't want to begin trying to understand that

Loki S1:

If everything happens at once, that's the opposite of linear. All time is happening at the same exact time and the TVA are monitoring the lines and keeping them under control.

Sylvie set off all those nexus events at once and the TVA had to put all those fires out as quickly as possible, if a single one of those nexus events diverged too much then the TVA collapses (see Sylvie assassinating He Who Remains in the final episode)

[Tomous]

I assumed alligator Loki wasn't born an alligator and was instead turned into one after some misadventure. It makes more sense that way...

In the comics there's multiple universes with lots of animals, one is spider-ham's universe where everyone is an animal and the other is home to the Pet Avengers including Throg. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-8311 https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-97161

I know of those universes in the comics but it doesn't really make sense for the context of the MCU with how they presented the Sacred Timeline

[Corazon de Leon]

I assumed alligator Loki wasn't born an alligator and was instead turned into one after some misadventure. It makes more sense that way...

In the comics there's multiple universes with lots of animals, one is spider-ham's universe where everyone is an animal and the other is home to the Pet Avengers including Throg. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-8311 https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-97161

I know of those universes in the comics but it doesn't really make sense for the context of the MCU with how they presented the Sacred Timeline

I do think one of the issues the show had is that the TVA's rules are very fast and loose. Like you can understand why there are loads of alt-Hiddleston Lokis but if there's a sacred timeline and everything needs to stay according to those rules, how the hell did Alligator Loki or any of the Mad Max Lokis that were with President Loki turn up?

Not that I really care about all of this you understand, because Alligator Loki was strawberry floating great.

[BID0]

I assumed alligator Loki wasn't born an alligator and was instead turned into one after some misadventure. It makes more sense that way...

In the comics there's multiple universes with lots of animals, one is spider-ham's universe where everyone is an animal and the other is home to the Pet Avengers including Throg. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-8311 https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-97161

I know of those universes in the comics but it doesn't really make sense for the context of the MCU with how they presented the Sacred Timeline

I do think one of the issues the show had is that the TVA's rules are very fast and loose. Like you can understand why there are loads of alt-Hiddleston Lokis but if there's a sacred timeline and everything needs to stay according to those rules, how the hell did Alligator Loki or any of the Mad Max Lokis that were with President Loki turn up?

Not that I really care about all of this you understand, because Alligator Loki was strawberry floating great.

As long as Alligator Loki isn't responsible for Kang the Chinchilla's dominance of that particular universe and threat to the sacred timeline, Alligator Loki doesn't need to be pruned.

[Cuttooth]

I wonder if all the TVA variants are meant to be some of the 50% of Earth's population who got blipped? Does the main judge appearing in 2018 line up with that timing?

[Rex Kramer]

I assumed alligator Loki wasn't born an alligator and was instead turned into one after some misadventure. It makes more sense that way...

In the comics there's multiple universes with lots of animals, one is spider-ham's universe where everyone is an animal and the other is home to the Pet Avengers including Throg. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-8311 https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-97161

I know of those universes in the comics but it doesn't really make sense for the context of the MCU with how they presented the Sacred Timeline

I do think one of the issues the show had is that the TVA's rules are very fast and loose. Like you can understand why there are loads of alt-Hiddleston Lokis but if there's a sacred timeline and everything needs to stay according to those rules, how the hell did Alligator Loki or any of the Mad Max Lokis that were with President Loki turn up?

Not that I really care about all of this you understand, because Alligator Loki was strawberry floating great.

My take is that there have been a multitude of Lokis that have all passed through the TVA as variants and, although there are many Hiddleston Lokis, then I think there are probably many more that aren't. All of those are pruned and end up in the void. And because they're so damn hard to kill then they survive there when the majority of other beings don't. There are definitely still questions to be resolved and so I'm hoping season 2 continues in the same vein.

[Tomous]

I assumed alligator Loki wasn't born an alligator and was instead turned into one after some misadventure. It makes more sense that way...

In the comics there's multiple universes with lots of animals, one is spider-ham's universe where everyone is an animal and the other is home to the Pet Avengers including Throg. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-8311 https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-97161

I know of those universes in the comics but it doesn't really make sense for the context of the MCU with how they presented the Sacred Timeline

I do think one of the issues the show had is that the TVA's rules are very fast and loose. Like you can understand why there are loads of alt-Hiddleston Lokis but if there's a sacred timeline and everything needs to stay according to those rules, how the hell did Alligator Loki or any of the Mad Max Lokis that were with President Loki turn up?

Not that I really care about all of this you understand, because Alligator Loki was strawberry floating great.

As long as Alligator Loki isn't responsible for Kang the Chinchilla's dominance of that particular universe and threat to the sacred timeline, Alligator Loki doesn't need to be pruned.

Alligator Loki was pruned though which raises the question how he contributed to Kang's dominance

[OrangeRKN]

Don't get hung up on this. Get hung up on the TVA existing outside of time but also clearly having its own linear progression through time, where somehow nexus events happening at various points throughout time can be made to all happen at the same time from the perspective of the TVA timeline...

Sylvie's plan to attack the TVA was literally built around setting off nexus events concurrently so that the TVA were overwhelmed with nexus events to react to, and I just don't want to begin trying to understand that

Loki S1:

If everything happens at once, that's the opposite of linear. All time is happening at the same exact time and the TVA are monitoring the lines and keeping them under control.

Sylvie set off all those nexus events at once and the TVA had to put all those fires out as quickly as possible, if a single one of those nexus events diverged too much then the TVA collapses (see Sylvie assassinating He Who Remains in the final episode)

The TVA itself does follow a linear timeline, and it's all conveniently linear in terms of characters leaving and returning to the TVA timeline. Every time Loki or Mobius or whoever leaves the TVA to travel through time, on returning to the TVA they arrive after they have left (and the time that has passed in the TVA timeline is conveniently seemingly the same amount of time that they have experienced).

Sylvie causes lots of nexus events at many different points in time across many different timelines, but these happen concurrently with a single point on the TVA timeline because she herself "triggers" them at the same TVA-aligned time.

Why for example does Loki's nexus event that starts the show get detected by the TVA on the TVA timeline before those nexus events? It seems that once someone has been to the TVA their experience of time is then conveniently "locked" to the TVA timeline, but that doesn't explain at which point they initially appear on the TVA timeline which seems somewhat arbitrary. That everyone's experienced time is locked with the TVA timeline is never explicitly addressed but seems to be the only way to think about it.

The answer is really just "don't think about it" and that's fine, the show is clearly trying to avoid any real complexities of time travel and the focus is more on the multiverse as a concept, but yeah it doesn't actually make much sense.

[Jenuall]

I think part of the problem with this show is that they seem to have played a bit fast and loose between the concepts of "multiverse" and "alternate timelines"

[Rex Kramer]

As always, Basil Exposition has the best answer to these questions.

[Corazon de Leon]

Basil Exposition is a wise, wise man.

[Tomous]

I think part of the problem with this show is that they seem to have played a bit fast and loose between the concepts of "multiverse" and "alternate timelines"

Definitely. Not being clear enough on the sacred timeline has made it very confusing at times.