Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread - Ms. Marvel, Moon Knight, She Hulk shows announced for Disney+

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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by VlaSoul » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:57 pm

Hexx wrote:So rather than going into thanks friends, family, she raises a social issues?

Where (timestamp) is her trying to dismiss criticism?

about 3:30 into the video
at that point it very sounds like she's trying to dismiss criticism levied at the quality of the film by saying it was primarily said by old white men
I understand that the core of this message is that there needs to be more diversity in film criticism, but that's a very a bizarre way of saying it

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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by Hexx » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:01 pm

VlaSoul wrote:
Hexx wrote:So rather than going into thanks friends, family, she raises a social issues?

Where (timestamp) is her trying to dismiss criticism?

about 3:30 into the video
at that point it very sounds like she's trying to dismiss criticism levied at the quality of the film by saying it was primarily said by old white men
I understand that the core of this message is that there needs to be more diversity in film criticism, but that's a very a bizarre way of saying it


Except she doesn't dismiss criticism. She invites it. She explicitly invites CRITIQUE from them. She's not avoiding negative feedback, she's asking for negative feedback to come from a wider audience (including who the film was made for).

"Let's here what's wrong with the film from more than just a white guy" is not 'dismissing ciriticism'

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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by VlaSoul » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:04 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:Nothing in that speech is in anyway exploitative.

If you think that's the case then, and I genuinely mean this in the nicest, literal sense possible, please educate yourself as to why what she's saying matters. If you're using the phrase 'coloured women' interchangeably with 'women of colour'... there's some work to be done there.

What she's saying does matter, I think I understand that, but the example she uses to illustrate that at the end of the video makes very little sense to me
In terms of the difference between coloured and person of colour, yeah I'm wrong there; I failed to take into account the history behind it I guess because I've always referred to myself as coloured and never taken offence to it. The difference between the two often seemed arbitrary me, but taking historical context into account, I should change my use of vernacular

Hexx wrote:
VlaSoul wrote:i find the constant cavalcade of losers on the internet complaining about her and her film for no reason other than the fact she's a feminist and a woman as annoying as the next dude


But you're pretty much repeating lots of the exact same talking points as they are? :?

Am I? To me it's always seemed more like it's people whining that she "hates men" or "hates white people" or "hates white men"
I think that's obviously bullshit but ok if I'm spouting the same rhetoric than maybe I need to reconsider my arguments more

Last edited by VlaSoul on Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by Tomous » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:04 pm

VlaSoul wrote:
Hexx wrote:So rather than going into thanks friends, family, she raises a social issues?

Where (timestamp) is her trying to dismiss criticism?

about 3:30 into the video
at that point it very sounds like she's trying to dismiss criticism levied at the quality of the film by saying it was primarily said by old white men
I understand that the core of this message is that there needs to be more diversity in film criticism, but that's a very a bizarre way of saying it


I really don't see what's bizarre about it?

She's saying she wants criticism from the people the film was made for and with the current lack of diversity in film criticism, that isn't happening. It's a perfectly valid point and demonstrably true.

Last edited by Tomous on Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by VlaSoul » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:04 pm

Hexx wrote:
VlaSoul wrote:
Hexx wrote:So rather than going into thanks friends, family, she raises a social issues?

Where (timestamp) is her trying to dismiss criticism?

about 3:30 into the video
at that point it very sounds like she's trying to dismiss criticism levied at the quality of the film by saying it was primarily said by old white men
I understand that the core of this message is that there needs to be more diversity in film criticism, but that's a very a bizarre way of saying it


Except she doesn't dismiss criticism. She invites it. She explicitly invites CRITIQUE from them. She's not avoiding negative feedback, she's asking for negative feedback to come from a wider audience (including who the film was made for).

"Let's here what's wrong with the film from more than just a white guy" is not 'dismissing ciriticism'

It came off to me like she was dismissing already existing criticism though, on the basis that it doesn't come from the audiences the film was aimed at
And yeah film criticism isn't diverse enough, but when most of the criticism towards a film is aimed at the visual effects and script writing, I don't think it's a great example to use at the end of the speech

Last edited by VlaSoul on Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by Hexx » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:06 pm

VlaSoul wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:Nothing in that speech is in anyway exploitative.

If you think that's the case then, and I genuinely mean this in the nicest, literal sense possible, please educate yourself as to why what she's saying matters. If you're using the phrase 'coloured women' interchangeably with 'women of colour'... there's some work to be done there.

What she's saying does matter, I think I understand that, but the example she uses to illustrate that at the end of the video makes very little sense to me
In terms of the difference between coloured and person of colour, yeah I'm wrong there; I failed to take into account the history behind it I guess because I've always referred to myself as coloured and never taken offence to it. The difference between the two often seemed arbitrary me, but taking historical context into account it makes sense

Hexx wrote:
VlaSoul wrote:i find the constant cavalcade of losers on the internet complaining about her and her film for no reason other than the fact she's a feminist and a woman as annoying as the next dude


But you're pretty much repeating lots of the exact same talking points as they are? :?

Am I? To me it's always seemed more like it's people whining that she "hates men" or "hates white people" or "hates white men"
I think that's obviously bullshit but ok if I'm spouting the same rhetoric than maybe I need to reconsider my arguments more


Well so far you "strawberry floating hate" her because of a interview that didn't happen, and then because you focus one one far-reach interpretation of one sentence from a 4 minute speech and ignore the follow up that contradicts your interpretation.

What about it was it exploitative?

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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by VlaSoul » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:10 pm

Hexx wrote:
VlaSoul wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:Nothing in that speech is in anyway exploitative.

If you think that's the case then, and I genuinely mean this in the nicest, literal sense possible, please educate yourself as to why what she's saying matters. If you're using the phrase 'coloured women' interchangeably with 'women of colour'... there's some work to be done there.

What she's saying does matter, I think I understand that, but the example she uses to illustrate that at the end of the video makes very little sense to me
In terms of the difference between coloured and person of colour, yeah I'm wrong there; I failed to take into account the history behind it I guess because I've always referred to myself as coloured and never taken offence to it. The difference between the two often seemed arbitrary me, but taking historical context into account it makes sense

Hexx wrote:
VlaSoul wrote:i find the constant cavalcade of losers on the internet complaining about her and her film for no reason other than the fact she's a feminist and a woman as annoying as the next dude


But you're pretty much repeating lots of the exact same talking points as they are? :?

Am I? To me it's always seemed more like it's people whining that she "hates men" or "hates white people" or "hates white men"
I think that's obviously bullshit but ok if I'm spouting the same rhetoric than maybe I need to reconsider my arguments more


Well so far you "strawberry floating hate" her because of a interview that didn't happen, and then because you focus one one far-reach interpretation of one sentence from a 4 minute speech and ignore the follow up that contradicts your interpretation.

What about it was it exploitative?

I found it exploitative because to me it seemed like she was taking a very real issue and applying it to the unnecessary defence of a product that received a lot of criticism. Perhaps my interpretation there is wrong, but that was the basis of my original argument
as I said "strawberry floating hate" is an exaggeration and that's just the way i talk about things, but yeah the fault is with me there

What follow up did I ignore?

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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by Mafro » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:12 pm

Got ‘em.

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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by OrangeRKN » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:12 pm

To be honest V it sounds like you got youtube'd. There's been a bit of a campaign from alt-right quarters to convince people Brie Larson is some kind of maligned villain, I'd guess that's influenced your opinion on her without really realising it.

Considering you didn't have much more than a passing interest as you're not really familiar with much stuff she's done, and you misremembered one of the speeches you're basing your opinion on, it's probably fair to just chalk it up as a mistake and move on.

It's still okay to not like Captain Marvel, I didn't really rate the film much and I didn't like her in Endgame. Brie Larson the actress seems like a decent person though.

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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by Hexx » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:16 pm

VlaSoul wrote:
Hexx wrote:
VlaSoul wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:Nothing in that speech is in anyway exploitative.

If you think that's the case then, and I genuinely mean this in the nicest, literal sense possible, please educate yourself as to why what she's saying matters. If you're using the phrase 'coloured women' interchangeably with 'women of colour'... there's some work to be done there.

What she's saying does matter, I think I understand that, but the example she uses to illustrate that at the end of the video makes very little sense to me
In terms of the difference between coloured and person of colour, yeah I'm wrong there; I failed to take into account the history behind it I guess because I've always referred to myself as coloured and never taken offence to it. The difference between the two often seemed arbitrary me, but taking historical context into account it makes sense

Hexx wrote:
VlaSoul wrote:i find the constant cavalcade of losers on the internet complaining about her and her film for no reason other than the fact she's a feminist and a woman as annoying as the next dude


But you're pretty much repeating lots of the exact same talking points as they are? :?

Am I? To me it's always seemed more like it's people whining that she "hates men" or "hates white people" or "hates white men"
I think that's obviously bullshit but ok if I'm spouting the same rhetoric than maybe I need to reconsider my arguments more


Well so far you "strawberry floating hate" her because of a interview that didn't happen, and then because you focus one one far-reach interpretation of one sentence from a 4 minute speech and ignore the follow up that contradicts your interpretation.

What about it was it exploitative?

I found it exploitative because to me it seemed like she was taking a very real issue and applying it to the unnecessary defence of a product that received a lot of criticism. Perhaps my interpretation there is wrong, but that was the basis of my original argument
as I said "strawberry floating hate" is an exaggeration and that's just the way i talk about things, but yeah the fault is with me there

What follow up did I ignore?


Literally the point where she invites criticism of the product you say she was trying to defend.

But 1 10 second badly worded out of content sentence from a 4 minute speech...it's not like the focus of the speech was defensive was it? Again she's inviting critique. Nothing she does implies "non white non males" would

You've turned it into something it's not and used it as a reason "strawberry floating hate" her.

It feels dangerous close to an instinctive presumption that of insincerity when discussing a social issue - which is why your viewpoint is coming across very MRA/Youtubey (particulary given you'd completely missremembered the incident where it happened)

Still thank you for taking the time to explain and elaborate

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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by Tafdolphin » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:18 pm

OrangeRKN wrote:Considering you didn't have much more than a passing interest as you're not really familiar with much stuff she's done, and you misremembered one of the speeches you're basing your opinion on, it's probably fair to just chalk it up as a mistake and move on.

It's still okay to not like Captain Marvel, I didn't really rate the film much and I didn't like her in Endgame. Brie Larson the actress seems like a decent person though.


This, essentially (although I thought she was great in Endgame)

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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by VlaSoul » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:20 pm

Hexx wrote:
VlaSoul wrote:
Hexx wrote:
Well so far you "strawberry floating hate" her because of a interview that didn't happen, and then because you focus one one far-reach interpretation of one sentence from a 4 minute speech and ignore the follow up that contradicts your interpretation.

What about it was it exploitative?

I found it exploitative because to me it seemed like she was taking a very real issue and applying it to the unnecessary defence of a product that received a lot of criticism. Perhaps my interpretation there is wrong, but that was the basis of my original argument
as I said "strawberry floating hate" is an exaggeration and that's just the way i talk about things, but yeah the fault is with me there

What follow up did I ignore?


Literally the point where she invites criticism of the product you say she was trying to defend.

But 1 10 second badly worded out of content sentence from a 4 minute speech...it's not like the focus of the speech was defensive was it? Again she's inviting critique. Nothing she does implies "non white non males" would

You've turned it into something it's not and used it as a reason "strawberry floating hate" her.

It feels dangerous close to an instinctive presumption that of insincerity when discussing a social issue - which is why your viewpoint is coming across very MRA/Youtubey (particulary given you'd completely missremembered the incident where it happened)

Still thank you for taking the time to explain and elaborate

I guess you're right about it being instinctive. It's like an application of my own experience to something that it probably wasn't appropriate to apply it to
and again "strawberry floating hate" is an exaggeration typical to way i speak
I'm new here so I shouldn't have done that cuz obvs no one knows me very well so that was a mistake

OrangeRKN wrote:To be honest V it sounds like you got youtube'd. There's been a bit of a campaign from alt-right quarters to convince people Brie Larson is some kind of maligned villain, I'd guess that's influenced your opinion on her without really realising it.

Considering you didn't have much more than a passing interest as you're not really familiar with much stuff she's done, and you misremembered one of the speeches you're basing your opinion on, it's probably fair to just chalk it up as a mistake and move on.

It's still okay to not like Captain Marvel, I didn't really rate the film much and I didn't like her in Endgame. Brie Larson the actress seems like a decent person though.

Yeah I suppose you're right
I don't know, I guess I've conflated what I saw of her with a lot of the kind of racism I've experienced, which in turn led me to think she was being disingenuous when she perhaps wasnt

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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by Hexx » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:20 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:Considering you didn't have much more than a passing interest as you're not really familiar with much stuff she's done, and you misremembered one of the speeches you're basing your opinion on, it's probably fair to just chalk it up as a mistake and move on.

It's still okay to not like Captain Marvel, I didn't really rate the film much and I didn't like her in Endgame. Brie Larson the actress seems like a decent person though.


This, essentially (although I thought she was great in Endgame)


She was the worst part

But that’s more Captain Marvel being a horrifically awful character. I’ve no idea if BL is a good or bad actor but even the greatest actor of our generation couldn’t save that turd

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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by Godzilla » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:37 pm

She was good in Skull Island and bloody good in Free Fire (which is sometimes on film 4 and it's awesome).

I didn't really like captain marvel but she came across a lot better in End Game.

I've had to unsubscribe to a load of movie news channels because of the politics behind them. If it's not Brie it's the hidden socialism in Toy Story 4. All seem to be run by people who only get their news from Facebook shares from their mad aunts.


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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by Cheeky Devlin » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:47 pm

In the comics I'm not a fan of Captain Marvel. She's just not particularly likeable. But then I've always preferred the more earth-based characters to the "cosmic" ones.

That said, I really enjoyed the movie and Larson was a big part of that. I thought she was funny and while she still has the characters arrogance it comes across a lot better there.

I thought she had just enough to do in Engame as well. I was worried they might try to make her more prominent at the expense of more-established characters.

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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by Tafdolphin » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:47 pm

Anyone who hasn't seen Short Term 12 should

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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by Dual » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:14 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:Um.

Huh.


That's a hard yikes from me.

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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by LightWanderer » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:50 pm

We need Dr Who in this universe so he can get Strange's help to
get Rose back from the parallel dimension


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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by Fuzzy Dunlop » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:55 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:Anyone who hasn't seen Short Term 12 should


Also Room

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PostRe: Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread
by Rex Kramer » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:06 pm

Saw Spider-Man FFH today. Enjoyed it a fair bit, I'd give it a Not as good as Spider-Verse out of 10.

Mysterio was pretty good, thought Gyllenhaal played the pre-heel stuff really well. Loved the Pete and MJ bits. Happy is so far out of Aunt May's league it's ridiculous. Also loved all the Easter eggs.

But my most favourite bits were the last 5 minutes and the mid-credits scene. Swinging through New York and full on J Jonah Jameson shouting about the Spider-Man menace. That's what a spidey film should all be about. And the fact it was Simmons :wub: Not sure on the post credits scene, don't have enough comic book knowledge to suggest where that might be taking the MCU. Might have to read around.


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