Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions, loot boxes, "surprise mechanics")

Anything to do with games at all.
User avatar
Trelliz
Doctor ♥
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions and loot boxes)
by Trelliz » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:01 pm

Tomous wrote:EA’s point on surprise mechanics is valid in a way. It’s been accepted practice in other areas such as toys and playing cards for years, as they point out.


Yes, but the main differences is that those are physical objects which you can trade or sell (at least you have the option to) and in 10 years time whatever card game will technically still be playable, unlike the servers for many games with lootboxes etc. Plus with random toys you aren't paying £50+ upfront BEFORE being given the opportunity to spend more.

“You don’t think it’s necessary to abide by data regulations by establishing the age of the people who play your game?” Lucas asked.

“We don’t,” said Pence. Later in the hearing, Pence denied giving that response, prompting Lucas to suggest he check the record of the hearing.


Wow. strawberry float them all into the strawberry floating sun. Regulate the lot of them, they've had it coming for years and now its time to reap the whirlwind.

Last edited by Trelliz on Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tragic Magic wrote:I'm giving esteem a name of crafty Fu mining pinitz strawberry float me I live roasted ponuts

Never pre-order or pre-purchase a console, game or season pass.
User avatar
Tomous
I Pissed My Pants
Joined in 2010
AKA: Vampbuster

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions and loot boxes)
by Tomous » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:06 pm

Trelliz wrote:
Tomous wrote:EA’s point on surprise mechanics is valid in a way. It’s been accepted practice in other areas such as toys and playing cards for years, as they point out.


Yes, but the main differences is that those are physical objects which you can trade or sell (at least you have the option to) and in 10 years time whatever card game will technically still be playable, unlike the servers for many games with lootboxes etc. Plus with random toys you aren't paying £50+ upfront BEFORE being given the opportunity to spend more.



Yes, that was my whole point-they need to be defending these specific implementations of the mechanic not simply defending the concept as a whole.

Image
User avatar
Karl_
Nyaaaaaaa~!
Nyaaaaaaa~!
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions and loot boxes)
by Karl_ » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:13 pm

Loot box mechanics IRL are less bad - mostly because buying a physical item at a shop with your pocket money is less psychologically "easy" and more often involves parental supervision - but they are still actually quite bad. We shouldn't make excuses for greedy corporations that nickel-and-dime literal children just because it's not the absolute-most-obnoxious form of it.

User avatar
Cheeky Devlin
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: The Dark And Lonely Regions, Where Nobody Goes.
Contact:

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions and loot boxes)
by Cheeky Devlin » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:49 am

Karl_ wrote:Loot box mechanics IRL are less bad - mostly because buying a physical item at a shop with your pocket money is less psychologically "easy" and more often involves parental supervision - but they are still actually quite bad. We shouldn't make excuses for greedy corporations that nickel-and-dime literal children just because it's not the absolute-most-obnoxious form of it.

This.

They have to physically enter the shop, hand over a method of payment and then when they open whatever it is they've bought that's it.

These lootboxes are specifically being designed with all the trappings of gambling machines, rewarding players with flashy colours and sound effects when they open their packs. It's this type of manipulation that is ultimately what my issue is as is preys on the predilictions of those with gambling and compulsion issues, while at the same time pushing that in kids faces as well. It's insidious and disgusting and I hope they nail these bastards to the wall. They have pushed and pushed these mechanics to absolute breaking point and now governments are taking notice. Good on the Belgians for flat out telling them to strawberry float off with that gooseberry fool.

Check out some of our stuff!
Image Image Image

JOIN OUR MINECRAFT REALM HERE!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
User avatar
Rubix
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Bristol
Contact:

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions and loot boxes)
by Rubix » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:41 pm


PLAY | PS4: Tales of Vesperia PSVR Skyrim VR Switch Xenoblade Chronicles 2
WATCH | GOT S6, OITNB S7
READ | She Lies in Wait
User avatar
Trelliz
Doctor ♥
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions and loot boxes)
by Trelliz » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:18 am

Jim dropping more truth bombs - EA and friends love getting away with it but desperately try to slink away from responsibility when called out, and now the problem has gotten the attention of people who could screw them over harder than they have their 'customers'.

Tragic Magic wrote:I'm giving esteem a name of crafty Fu mining pinitz strawberry float me I live roasted ponuts

Never pre-order or pre-purchase a console, game or season pass.
User avatar
Balladeer
Member
Joined in 2018
Location: Lord's

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions and loot boxes)
by Balladeer » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:41 pm



Not an easy watch, but... yes.

User avatar
Winckle
Technician
Joined in 2008
Location: Liverpool

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions and loot boxes)
by Winckle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:45 am

Balladeer wrote:

Not an easy watch, but... yes.

Oh wow. Pulls it all together.

User avatar
Trelliz
Doctor ♥
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions and loot boxes)
by Trelliz » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:24 pm

Winckle wrote:
Balladeer wrote:

Not an easy watch, but... yes.

Oh wow. Pulls it all together.


This. Absolutely this. The mainstream 'fee-to-pay' triple A games industry is an absolute racket, one that does not benefit anyone but themselves. As you say, this pulls together the tax evasion, the problems with the idea that "lootboxes support developers" - they absolutely don't. I've retreated to a handful of predominantly single-player only games that either have none of this garbage or it's relegated to a multiplayer mode I either don't have PS+/Xbox live for or has been dead for years.

Its a pointless treadmill of psychological manipulation, weaponised jealousy and wanton greed; all fed by a battery farm of people's wallets. The games industry are not your friends. If it was an ice cream flavour, it would be pralines and dick.

Tragic Magic wrote:I'm giving esteem a name of crafty Fu mining pinitz strawberry float me I live roasted ponuts

Never pre-order or pre-purchase a console, game or season pass.
jawafour
Member
Joined in 2012

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions, loot boxes, "surprise mechanics")
by jawafour » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:20 pm

I saw that Rockstar had added a massive casino to GTA Online. "It's not gambling" etc.

Hollywood Reporter wrote:GTA Online's Casino update has been the biggest launch since the game was released, boasting the most online players in a single day and week since GTA 5 first launched all the way back in 2013.


I'm starting to think that the "players want this choice" message is true :| .

User avatar
Cheeky Devlin
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: The Dark And Lonely Regions, Where Nobody Goes.
Contact:

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions, loot boxes, "surprise mechanics")
by Cheeky Devlin » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:27 pm

jawafour wrote:I saw that Rockstar had added a massive casino to GTA Online. "It's not gambling" etc.

Hollywood Reporter wrote:GTA Online's Casino update has been the biggest launch since the game was released, boasting the most online players in a single day and week since GTA 5 first launched all the way back in 2013.


I'm starting to think that the "players want this choice" message is true :| .

Unfortunately there is very much a feeling that those people who are the most vocal about not wanting microtransactions, loot boxes and other associated AAA shite in games, are very much in the minority

You look at the sheer number of people who buy and play things like FIFA, GTA V, COD, Battlefront II and the sad fact is that the vast majority of those people absolutely could not care less about it. They see no problem with it and either aren't aware of how these things are designed to manipulate them or they don't care.

With something like FUT you'll find hordes of people who actively enjoy it the way it is and as long as that is the case, there's not much we can do.

Check out some of our stuff!
Image Image Image

JOIN OUR MINECRAFT REALM HERE!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
jawafour
Member
Joined in 2012

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions, loot boxes, "surprise mechanics")
by jawafour » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:34 pm

Cheeky Devlin wrote:Unfortunately there is very much a feeling that those people who are the most vocal about not wanting microtransactions, loot boxes and other associated AAA shite in games, are very much in the minority...

I think you're right, CD. My older nephews (aged 11 and 13) have grown up in a gaming world (console and mobile) where multiple editions, expensive DLC and "season / battle passes" are just normal; they don't think of it as being something "bad". Us gamer "veterans" will soon be dead and so the noise will lessen.

Crumbs, that took a dark turn for a Friday afternoon :o .

User avatar
Venom
Member ♥
Joined in 2008
Location: London
Contact:

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions, loot boxes, "surprise mechanics")
by Venom » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:13 pm

Publishers will soon have to disclose odds for Loot Boxes due to an agreement between Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo.

Not a fan of loot boxes in games? Or hate how earning things in them seem so random? That’s about to change soon. The big three hardware makers — Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo — have agreed to require publisher to disclose the loot box odds of winning items in their games.

During an Inside the Game talk by the FTC (Federal Trade Commission), the ESA’s (Entertainment Software Association) Chief Counsel of Tech Policy, Michael Warnecke, disclosed how the big-name hardware makers (Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo) have agreed to require the odds of earning items in loot boxes for new games and even updates of games that introduce loot boxes in games (hello, Call of Duty).

I’m pleased to announce this morning that Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony have indicated to ESA a commitment to new platform policies with respect to the use of paid loot boxes in games that are developed for their platform. Specifically, this would apply to new games and game updates that add loot box features. And it would require the disclosure of the relative rarity or probabilities of obtaining randomized virtual items in games that are available on their platforms. They went on to further explain why this is needed.


I think sometimes that’s the economy we’re dealing with is that appreciate sir being put on an industry to take on a role that may not be something they need to take on. disclosure is wonderful i think we all need to understand what it is that we’re buying. but it’s a matter of how do you that. it’s a matter of how clear it is and whether or not we’re being clear to the industry as a whole across the board. or if we’re trying to create clarity for one particular outline individual. i think we can’t do the latter. all we can do is basically put out disclosure that in as clear a sense as possible makes people understand what they’re getting. what they’re purchasing if they decide to do it because they love that game. that’s their right to do it. i don’t think that we as an industry needs to step into that parental role, though. because some of these people are not children. some of these people are our age. they’re spending a thousand dollars on a game that they love and they spend, this is their way of relaxing after a hard day’s work.


This is definitely a step in the right direction, given how some games have been exploiting loot boxes to entice gamers to buy them in order to gain an advantage in games. Will this mean the death of loot boxes in games? Probably not, but at least with the odds of winning/earning items laid out, gamers can make more educated purchasing decisions.


https://mp1st.com/news/publishers-will- ... d-nintendo

jawafour
Member
Joined in 2012

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions, loot boxes, "surprise mechanics")
by jawafour » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:32 pm

Venom wrote:Publishers will soon have to disclose odds for Loot Boxes due to an agreement between Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo...

Excellent!

I really dislike how loot boxes operate and, hopefully, the availability of actual figures will highlight the very low probabilities of getting the "good" things to the people who spend out on them. I have stopped playing The Elder Scrolls Online because loot boxes have, in my view, totally spoilt the game. Zenimax / Bethesda has increasingly moved towards making many of the cooler items only available via expensive loot boxes and the chances of getting what you want are tiny. This process is gambling even though legal technicalities prevent it from being called so.

If folk can see that, for example, the chances of getting the new shiny armoured horse are 0.005%, they may decide to spend their money elsewhere... which would be great!

jawafour
Member
Joined in 2012

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions, loot boxes, "surprise mechanics")
by jawafour » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:35 pm

Eurogamer wrote:At present, it's unclear whether any of these newly announced measures will be applicable to territories beyond the US...

Uh-oh... :dread: .

User avatar
Saint of Killers
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions, loot boxes, "surprise mechanics")
by Saint of Killers » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:52 pm

Great news from the console manufacturers, even if they don't have to publish outside the US. Most parents wouldn't know anyway, and if the odds are massively against players it'll hit mainstream news regardless, if it's a big game.

Another sterling piece of work by Sterling:



When I saw the video on my feed: Sinister? Oh Jim, c'mon now.

After watching the video: The sinister splits! :x :x :x

| (•_•)| S: This is the best date I've been on since my last date. PB: This is not a date.
S: Neither was the last one. It was a robbery. M: Really? S: Yeah. She stole my heart. And my crown. (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
User avatar
Moggy
"Special"
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions, loot boxes, "surprise mechanics")
by Moggy » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:59 am

jawafour wrote:I saw that Rockstar had added a massive casino to GTA Online. "It's not gambling" etc.

Hollywood Reporter wrote:GTA Online's Casino update has been the biggest launch since the game was released, boasting the most online players in a single day and week since GTA 5 first launched all the way back in 2013.


I'm starting to think that the "players want this choice" message is true :| .


I think I read that you can put real life money into the GTA casino but you can't take any money out.

Which makes it even worse than normal gambling. :lol:

User avatar
Lagamorph
Member ♥
Joined in 2010

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions, loot boxes, "surprise mechanics")
by Lagamorph » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:35 am

Moggy wrote:
jawafour wrote:I saw that Rockstar had added a massive casino to GTA Online. "It's not gambling" etc.

Hollywood Reporter wrote:GTA Online's Casino update has been the biggest launch since the game was released, boasting the most online players in a single day and week since GTA 5 first launched all the way back in 2013.


I'm starting to think that the "players want this choice" message is true :| .


I think I read that you can put real life money into the GTA casino but you can't take any money out.

Which makes it even worse than normal gambling. :lol:

But it has the usual loophole of being you have to buy virtual currency and then gamble with the virtual currency, so it's just that technical step removed from "real gambling"

Though I'd argue the fact that in a casino you have to exchange cash for chips (ie, a real equivalent of a Virtual currency) then that shouldn't be enough of a distinction. Unfortunately lawmakers in some countries (including ours) disagree with me.

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
User avatar
Karl_
Nyaaaaaaa~!
Nyaaaaaaa~!
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions, loot boxes, "surprise mechanics")
by Karl_ » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:08 pm

Succinct critique of the politics of the big-G Gamers you find on imageboards and sites like Reddit, particularly relating to the loot box debate:

Image

User avatar
Tomous
I Pissed My Pants
Joined in 2010
AKA: Vampbuster

PostRe: Paid content in videogames (DLC, season passes, micro transactions, loot boxes, "surprise mechanics")
by Tomous » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:23 pm

Karl_ wrote:Succinct critique of the politics of the big-G Gamers you find on imageboards and sites like Reddit, particularly relating to the loot box debate:

Image



Because in the case of the latter, it's UNFAIR on THEM.

Image

Return to “Games”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: addsy0, Cuttooth, Damian, darksideby182, kazanova_Frankenstein, kerr9000, MSN [Bot], Nook29, Oblomov Boblomov, Peter Crisp, Rubix, Tafdolphin, Trelliz and 53 guests