Xbox Cloud Gaming. Cloud Gaming (Beta) on Console now available to all Xbox's with GPU (p17)

NickSCFC

Photek wrote:
NickSCFC wrote:
Moggy wrote:I agree with Gemini. The next gen will offer disc drives but I think after that consoles will be download/stream only.

Do we technically need a generation after the next?

I've been watching videos of Resident Evil 2 and DMC V running on Pro/X/PC on YouTube and wondering if games need to look any better? It's already becoming ridiculous with 5 year development lifecycles.

Can't speak for PC but on X1X, but Resi 2 is not a game I'd use to 'showcase' the X. It's looking like Metro Exodus/The Division 2 should take that mantle but from what I own, RDR2, Sea of Thieves and AC Odyssey are jaw dropping at times.

I can agree with RDR2 there, both characters and landscapes look fantastic.

Metro's characters are poorly animated and SOT (minus the water) looks like an upscaled Dreamcast game.

Saying that, I did throw DMC V in there and while the characters are likely the best modelled ones of the generation, the backgrounds are pretty average.

Minus the water, which is 90% of the games visuals...ok.

The lighting any good no?

Final Fantasy XIII looks better than Resi 2 on X tbh but I digress.

I'm MILDLY excited about this tech and that's more than I was before, even if I can play slower paced games like Divinity Original Sin on my phone I'll love it.

Gemini73 wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:
Gemini73 wrote:You'll find the vast majority clinging onto physical media are of a certain age group and who refuse to let go.

Sure, but while those people are alive and have money to spend, why wouldn't the market cater to them? It's otherwise money left on the table.

Because this industry knows those same people, (the majority at least), for all their harping on about "physical forever, digital never" will still pour money into video games even without a physical option.

The games industry can afford to lose a few stubborn folk along the way.

1) If one console offers physical media and the other doesn't, those people will buy the physical option. Physical media offers a competitive advantage among collectors (and those same people are likely also hardcore early adopters that will set the early relative success of each console).

2) Some collectors buy games physically that they would not buy digitally.

3) Some collectors double dip on a physical release even if they already own the game digitally.

Point 1 is why I think the console manufacturers will be wary of not offering a physical option, for fear that their competitors will and they will suffer for it. Points 2 and 3 are the money that gets left on the table, even with digital sales replacing physical.

BID0 wrote:Yeh this. There's already a company (https://www.limitedrungames.com/) that sells limited run games. I think the best you can hope for is a limited run of the collectors editions we have today (steel book case, map, stature, trinket) along with a download code for your game.

Limited Run Games are a prime example of a company that profits from the desire for physical (actual, game code in your hand physical) releases - even for PC. If physical media stops being an option on console (which I still don't think it will, I think it will become optional), then it will still be possible on PC.

Moggy wrote:Ogg laughed at Ugg’s business model. “Sure you are making stone cicles now, but one day people will want a roof over their heads when worshipping the Gods!”

Ugg was unimpressed by this, “You are stupid Ogg, people are still producing and releasing stone circles, what mad religion would want a roof on their temple? You can’t see the sun and moon if there’s a roof! Stone circles are the way people worship and they are still profitable right now, why would that change?”

You completely lost me now (m)ogg(y)

OrangeRKN wrote:
Gemini73 wrote:
BID0 wrote:Yeh this. There's already a company (https://www.limitedrungames.com/) that sells limited run games. I think the best you can hope for is a limited run of the collectors editions we have today (steel book case, map, stature, trinket) along with a download code for your game.

Limited Run Games are a prime example of a company that profits from the desire for physical (actual, game code in your hand physical) releases - even for PC. If physical media stops being an option on console (which I still don't think it will, I think it will become optional), then it will still be possible on PC

Yeh that's my point, it's a model that can sustain a small business but not an industry.

I imagine they'll be a disc machine and a disc-less one and not much will change in the first 1-2 years. After that point you will begin to see the major AAA going download only (just like the indie games on the 360/PS3) and with enough fan petitioning you may see a game like Assassins Creed come to a Limited Run Games type of physical release a year after the game originally came out. I think Microsoft will be the first of the AAAs to drop physical releases of their games.

OrangeRKN wrote:
You completely lost me now (m)ogg(y)

Lost, just like Ogg and Ugg are lost to the cruel nature of time. :cry:

Gemini73

BID0 wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:
Gemini73 wrote:
BID0 wrote:Yeh this. There's already a company (https://www.limitedrungames.com/) that sells limited run games. I think the best you can hope for is a limited run of the collectors editions we have today (steel book case, map, stature, trinket) along with a download code for your game.

Limited Run Games are a prime example of a company that profits from the desire for physical (actual, game code in your hand physical) releases - even for PC. If physical media stops being an option on console (which I still don't think it will, I think it will become optional), then it will still be possible on PC

Yeh that's my point, it's a model that can sustain a small business but not an industry.

I imagine they'll be a disc machine and a disc-less one and not much will change in the first 1-2 years. After that point you will begin to see the major AAA going download only (just like the indie games on the 360/PS3) and with enough fan petitioning you may see a game like Assassins Creed come to a Limited Run Games type of physical release a year after the game originally came out. I think Microsoft will be the first of the AAAs to drop physical releases of their games.

Limited run copies will very likely only be home to the AAA publishers and even then only if they see it as worth their time as a viable way to squeeze more cash out of punters. I suspect at best the likes of EA, Activision and co will take advantage of collector editions with download codes, but beyond that? There won't be any disc based consoles after the next generation from MS and Sony. Guaranteed.

BID0 wrote:I imagine they'll be a disc machine and a disc-less one and not much will change in the first 1-2 years. After that point you will begin to see the major AAA going download only (just like the indie games on the 360/PS3) and with enough fan petitioning you may see a game like Assassins Creed come to a Limited Run Games type of physical release a year after the game originally came out. I think Microsoft will be the first of the AAAs to drop physical releases of their games.

I don't think I disagree with this much to be honest! I'm just more optimistic of how many games will get limited physical runs to profit from the physical collector's market.

Gemini73 wrote:Limited run copies will very likely only be home to the AAA publishers and even then only if they see it as worth their time as a viable way to squeeze more cash out of punters. I suspect at best the likes of EA, Activision and co will take advantage of collector editions with download codes, but beyond that? There won't be any disc based consoles after the next generation from MS and Sony. Guaranteed.

Limited Run Games mainstay is physical versions of smaller indie games, so I don't see why that would shift to only AAA games. If anything the smaller reach of indie titles makes courting the physical collector crowd more worthwhile.

Also, as you're handing out guarantees (

), what about Nintendo?

Last edited by BID0 on Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm actually surprised that Nintendo wasn't the first as it lends itself perfectly to smaller and portable devices. They didn't invest in the infrastructure required in the Gamecube days though and fell way behind.

Gemini73

OrangeRKN wrote:
BID0 wrote:I imagine they'll be a disc machine and a disc-less one and not much will change in the first 1-2 years. After that point you will begin to see the major AAA going download only (just like the indie games on the 360/PS3) and with enough fan petitioning you may see a game like Assassins Creed come to a Limited Run Games type of physical release a year after the game originally came out. I think Microsoft will be the first of the AAAs to drop physical releases of their games.

I don't think I disagree with this much to be honest! I'm just more optimistic of how many games will get limited physical runs to profit from the physical collector's market.

Gemini73 wrote:Limited run copies will very likely only be home to the AAA publishers and even then only if they see it as worth their time as a viable way to squeeze more cash out of punters. I suspect at best the likes of EA, Activision and co will take advantage of collector editions with download codes, but beyond that? There won't be any disc based consoles after the next generation from MS and Sony. Guaranteed.

Limited Run Games mainstay is physical versions of smaller indie games, so I don't see why that would shift to only AAA games. If anything the smaller reach of indie titles makes courting the physical collector crowd more worthwhile.

Yes I guess that is true. The AAA industry might choose to ignore it altogether then.

Also, as you're handing out guarantees ( ), what about Nintendo?

I was really only talking about Sony & Microsoft. Nintendo tend to do their own thing.

How's it going with your solution to latency here? It's still an issue with many services we've seen already, so what kind of latency will we see on xCloud, and how are you going about minimising that?

Kareem Choudhry: From the data centres we have near Washington we're seeing really good latency - less than 10 milliseconds that's being added by the traversal to the cloud. Frankly we find more latency in the Bluetooth stack, connected to an Android phone.

What kind of connections will you be requiring for this?

Kareem Choudhry: We hope to get down to single digit mbps. I think some of the demos we've shown so far have probably gone down to nine, 10mbps. Some of the work that we're doing with Microsoft research, I think we'll be able to get a really good video feed probably around six to five.

How do services like GamePass sit alongside xCloud?

Kareem Choudhry: Obviously GamePass is our subscription service, it's really where we want to deliver great experiences and value to our customers. And right now it's a console product - we have aspirations to bring it to more users and more places. Project xCloud and GamePass are going to co-exist in some reasonable way.

A broader philosophical question - some people see cloud gaming as the death of console, or the start of it. Is it that extreme?

Kareem Choudhry: It's not that extreme at all! I've been building consoles for 15 years - we're not getting out of the console business, we spoke about it in our xCloud videos. We love our consoles, we love that business, and we're super proud to have the most powerful console out on the market place today and that leadership position we hope to retain going foward. And I also believe your best premium experience is going to be dedicated hardware running under your TV in your living room. It's an 'and' conversation, not an 'or' conversation. Everyone loves to jump to the death of consoles, and I think it makes a great headline, but we don't think that way at all.

More at the link - https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019 ... -substance

Gemini73 wrote:
Moggy wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:
BID0 wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:The CD and DVD argument is only meant to demonstrate that even in a digital dominated market, there is enough demand for physical media to be profitable.

Not really. CD sales have been down year on year for sometime. I think Vinyl is ahead of it now in terms of sales.

Same story for DVD and BluRay. It's hard to buy the blank media these days and manufacturers are beginning to end production on the players.

Granted I don't know much at all about sales figures and manufacturing, but when I go to buy a new album or film they keep getting released. Isn't that evidence of profitability? Why else would new releases keep appearing?

In 3500BC, Ugg the Caveman proclaimed that his stone circle business would last forever. “They just finished Stonehenge!” he exclaimed “Stone circles keep appearing, surely that’s evidence that we will be building stone circles forever?”

As funny as that was to read there's so much truth to it. You'll find the vast majority clinging onto physical media are of a certain age group and who refuse to let go.

However, I look to my children and their social groups and the demand for physical based media isn't a thing at all. To quote ny Fortnite loving daughter "I saw Fornite in a box for sale today Daddy. Who would want that when it's free on the Internet?"

I rest my case.

Doesn't really prove anything when using a paid for game in a shop Vs a free download if said game. Pretty sure it's a code anyway with extra skins and gooseberry fool.

If it was 'hey why is my game on my Xbox £10 more than this in the shop' you may have a point.

GDC xCloud on mobile talk, a thread -

twitter.com/russellholly/status/1108769849272983552

twitter.com/MicrosoftUK/status/1115513436178395136

So they now have 3 Amiga 500's on this

.

Awesome.

Website

Monkey Man wrote:
Kareem Choudhry: We love our consoles, we love that business, and we're super proud to have the most powerful console out on the market place today and that leadership position we hope to retain going forward. And I also believe your best premium experience is going to be dedicated hardware running under your TV in your living room. It's an 'and' conversation, not an 'or' conversation. Everyone loves to jump to the death of consoles, and I think it makes a great headline, but we don't think that way at all.

Interesting! So they are still going to make a traditional boxed console (for now.) They want it to be the most powerful on the market. And Cloud computing is a complementary business.

Project xCloud: More for Gamers and Developers

Last fall, we pulled back the curtain on Project xCloud – our game-streaming technology. Our vision for Xbox is that you can play the games you want, with the people you want, on the devices you want. Project xCloud brings us closer to fully realizing that vision. Our teams around the globe have been hard at work, building out and testing the system. We recently rolled out an alpha version to Microsoft employees through our take home program and are using the feedback to make improvements, ensuring Project xCloud offers customers a great experience.

The driving purpose behind Project xCloud has been to enable playing great games anywhere, anytime. From the beginning, our aim has been seamless compatibility. We want to make it as easy as possible for developers to make their games available to all gamers with support for existing games, those currently in development, and future games.

The power of Project xCloud – the seamless compatibility for developers and the new places to play for gamers – comes from Azure datacenters spanning the globe, with hardware that shares a common set of components with our Xbox consoles. We’ve already deployed our custom Project xCloud blades to datacenters across 13 Azure regions with an initial emphasis on proximity to key game development centers in North America, Asia and Europe. Leading global development teams such as Capcom and Paradox Interactive now have the ability to easily test their games directly from Project xCloud without having to port to a new platform. This is just the beginning of our buildout, with our ultimate goal of supporting gamers in Azure regions around the world.

Today you can play three generations of amazing games on Xbox One. That means that Project xCloud has the technical capability to stream more than 3,500 games, without any changes or modifications required by a developer. In other words, developers will be able to dramatically scale their existing games across devices, with no additional development, no additional code base maintenance and no separate updates. When a developer updates the Xbox One version of their title, those updates will also apply to all versions available on Project xCloud without any additional work.

There are currently more than 1,900 games in development for Xbox One, all of which could run on Project xCloud. Developers creating those games continue working normally – building with the tools they have – while we do the work to make their games accessible to the broadest set of players possible.

We also recently added enhancements to our standard Xbox Developer Kit (XDK) to add support for streaming. One API we’re excited about is the new “IsStreaming” API which allows any game to know if it’s streaming from the cloud. Games can then cue features and functionality to enhance the streaming experience; for instance, adjusting font sizes for smaller displays or hosting multiplayer matches on a single server to reduce latency. We’ll continue to look for ways to empower developers to tailor their games for the many ways their customers play.

Project xCloud is an exciting journey that we are all on together. We can’t wait to invite the community to provide feedback, help us shape it and participate in development in a very open and transparent way. Stay tuned…

Thanx,

Kareem

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/05/24/ ... evelopers/

NickSCFC

Any chance we'll see Age of Empires IV?

Used to enjoy these games and I'd love to see the return of traditional RTS.

NickSCFC wrote:Any chance we'll see Age of Empires IV?

Used to enjoy these games and I'd love to see the return of traditional RTS.

They've been hinting at AoE on Xbox now for AGES....

Photek wrote:
NickSCFC wrote:Any chance we'll see Age of Empires IV?

Used to enjoy these games and I'd love to see the return of traditional RTS.

They've been hinting at AoE on Xbox now for AGES....

Yeah but they're Microsoft not Sega so they just can't manage it.

Peter Crisp wrote:
Photek wrote:
NickSCFC wrote:Any chance we'll see Age of Empires IV?

Used to enjoy these games and I'd love to see the return of traditional RTS.

They've been hinting at AoE on Xbox now for AGES....

Yeah but they're Microsoft not Sega so they just can't manage it.

That's a a meme for the baby boomers!

Xbox Cloud Gaming. Cloud Gaming (Beta) on Console now available to all Xbox's with GPU (p17)

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