Xbox Cloud Gaming. Cloud Gaming (Beta) on Console now available to all Xbox's with GPU (p17)

jawafour wrote:I have to admit that I think we're rushing towards a "download only" gaming landscape. I had thought that the Switch was going to be download-only (Capcom thinks it actually is) and I do wonder if physical games for next-gen consoles will be some kind of extra-expense option rather than standard.

Only EU Capcom though

BID0 wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:The CD and DVD argument is only meant to demonstrate that even in a digital dominated market, there is enough demand for physical media to be profitable.

Not really. CD sales have been down year on year for sometime. I think Vinyl is ahead of it now in terms of sales.

Same story for DVD and BluRay. It's hard to buy the blank media these days and manufacturers are beginning to end production on the players.

Granted I don't know much at all about sales figures and manufacturing, but when I go to buy a new album or film they keep getting released. Isn't that evidence of profitability? Why else would new releases keep appearing?

OrangeRKN wrote:

BID0 wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:The CD and DVD argument is only meant to demonstrate that even in a digital dominated market, there is enough demand for physical media to be profitable.

Not really. CD sales have been down year on year for sometime. I think Vinyl is ahead of it now in terms of sales.

Same story for DVD and BluRay. It's hard to buy the blank media these days and manufacturers are beginning to end production on the players.

Granted I don't know much at all about sales figures and manufacturing, but when I go to buy a new album or film they keep getting released. Isn't that evidence of profitability? Why else would new releases keep appearing?

In 3500BC, Ugg the Caveman proclaimed that his stone circle business would last forever. “They just finished Stonehenge!” he exclaimed “Stone circles keep appearing, surely that’s evidence that we will be building stone circles forever?”

Moggy wrote:I agree with Gemini. The next gen will offer disc drives but I think after that consoles will be download/stream only.

Do we technically need a generation after the next?

I've been watching videos of Resident Evil 2 and DMC V running on Pro/X/PC on YouTube and wondering if games need to look any better? It's already becoming ridiculous with 5 year development lifecycles.

OrangeRKN wrote:

BID0 wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:The CD and DVD argument is only meant to demonstrate that even in a digital dominated market, there is enough demand for physical media to be profitable.

Not really. CD sales have been down year on year for sometime. I think Vinyl is ahead of it now in terms of sales.

Same story for DVD and BluRay. It's hard to buy the blank media these days and manufacturers are beginning to end production on the players.

Granted I don't know much at all about sales figures and manufacturing, but when I go to buy a new album or film they keep getting released. Isn't that evidence of profitability? Why else would new releases keep appearing?

Generally when a medium is about to die you will see blank media for that medium begin to dry up (for general public anyway - although I can confirm that it's difficult now to even get good quality blank DVDs commercially), this has been happening for just over a year now.

Next manufacturers end production of the hardware (this is your games console): https://www.cnet.com/news/samsung-to-st ... port-says/

Finally the media that is still printed will be produced in much smaller volumes (increasing production and sale costs) which also increases the rate at which the medium finally dies as it becomes too expensive.

The only reason Vinyl is thriving is because of the die hard following for it (both from the people creating music and the people consuming it). Annual events such as Record Store Day over the last 10 years have helped keep the stores selling them open. Because of that, Vinyl Records are an exception to the rule. Video Games don't have that luxury as the vast majority of consumers buy games digitally these days (which is increasing year on year) and the creators don't want physical media either.

BID0 wrote:[Video Games don't have that luxury as the vast majority of consumers buy games digitally these days (which is increasing year on year) and the creators don't want physical media either.

Is that globally or just the UK?

NickSCFC wrote:

Moggy wrote:I agree with Gemini. The next gen will offer disc drives but I think after that consoles will be download/stream only.

Do we technically need a generation after the next?

I've been watching videos of Resident Evil 2 and DMC V running on Pro/X/PC on YouTube and wondering if games need to look any better? It's already becoming ridiculous with 5 year development lifecycles.

I am pretty sure people were saying that 10 years ago.

Until games look identical to real life, then we will continue to have new technology to make our games prettier. And when they reach absolute photo realism, we will have another gen for virtual reality systems that plug directly into your brain.

There is too much money to be made from new hardware for them to just stop.

I think we might see a more mobile phone style generation system where thinks are backwards and forwards compatible though.

Moggy wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:

BID0 wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:The CD and DVD argument is only meant to demonstrate that even in a digital dominated market, there is enough demand for physical media to be profitable.

Not really. CD sales have been down year on year for sometime. I think Vinyl is ahead of it now in terms of sales.

Same story for DVD and BluRay. It's hard to buy the blank media these days and manufacturers are beginning to end production on the players.

Granted I don't know much at all about sales figures and manufacturing, but when I go to buy a new album or film they keep getting released. Isn't that evidence of profitability? Why else would new releases keep appearing?

In 3500BC, Ugg the Caveman proclaimed that his stone circle business would last forever. “They just finished Stonehenge!” he exclaimed “Stone circles keep appearing, surely that’s evidence that we will be building stone circles forever?”

As funny as that was to read there's so much truth to it. You'll find the vast majority clinging onto physical media are of a certain age group and who refuse to let go.

However, I look to my children and their social groups and the demand for physical based media isn't a thing at all. To quote ny Fortnite loving daughter "I saw Fornite in a box for sale today Daddy. Who would want that when it's free on the Internet?"

I rest my case.

Gemini73 wrote:

Moggy wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:

BID0 wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:The CD and DVD argument is only meant to demonstrate that even in a digital dominated market, there is enough demand for physical media to be profitable.

Not really. CD sales have been down year on year for sometime. I think Vinyl is ahead of it now in terms of sales.

Same story for DVD and BluRay. It's hard to buy the blank media these days and manufacturers are beginning to end production on the players.

Granted I don't know much at all about sales figures and manufacturing, but when I go to buy a new album or film they keep getting released. Isn't that evidence of profitability? Why else would new releases keep appearing?

In 3500BC, Ugg the Caveman proclaimed that his stone circle business would last forever. “They just finished Stonehenge!” he exclaimed “Stone circles keep appearing, surely that’s evidence that we will be building stone circles forever?”

As funny as that was to read there's so much truth to it. You'll find the vast majority clinging onto physical media are of a certain age group and who refuse to let go.

However, I look to my children and their social groups and the demand for physical based media isn't a thing at all. To quote ny Fortnite loving daughter "I saw Fornite in a box for sale today Daddy. Who would want that when it's free on the Internet?"

I rest my case.

She says that now but in 5 to 10 years she will be a cassette tape loving hipster that “just wants to feel something real”.

Moggy wrote:In 3500BC, Ugg the Caveman proclaimed that his stone circle business would last forever. “They just finished Stonehenge!” he exclaimed “Stone circles keep appearing, surely that’s evidence that we will be building stone circles forever?”

As much as Ugg sounds like an upstanding gent, this isn't analogous to what I said at all. I'm saying that right now physical releases appear to be profitable because right now they are still being produced and released.

@BID0, I think Vinyl confuses the issue because we're not talking about specific types of physical media, we're talking about the existence of any physical media at all due to a demand for it instead of digital. If CDs disappear entirely, the existence of Vinyl means that a physical collector's market still exists. The problem is assessing how much of that market is driven by something specific to Vinyl (sound quality etc.), and how much is driven by a general preference for a physical collection (something that can then be compared to games).

Films might be easier in that respect, so my question is do you expect all physical media of film to disappear, and if so how soon?

Anecdotally I would say that the physical collector's market in videogames is bigger than in films, although a lot of that is in retro games.

Moggy wrote:

Gemini73 wrote:

Moggy wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:

BID0 wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:The CD and DVD argument is only meant to demonstrate that even in a digital dominated market, there is enough demand for physical media to be profitable.

Not really. CD sales have been down year on year for sometime. I think Vinyl is ahead of it now in terms of sales.

Same story for DVD and BluRay. It's hard to buy the blank media these days and manufacturers are beginning to end production on the players.

Granted I don't know much at all about sales figures and manufacturing, but when I go to buy a new album or film they keep getting released. Isn't that evidence of profitability? Why else would new releases keep appearing?

In 3500BC, Ugg the Caveman proclaimed that his stone circle business would last forever. “They just finished Stonehenge!” he exclaimed “Stone circles keep appearing, surely that’s evidence that we will be building stone circles forever?”

As funny as that was to read there's so much truth to it. You'll find the vast majority clinging onto physical media are of a certain age group and who refuse to let go.

However, I look to my children and their social groups and the demand for physical based media isn't a thing at all. To quote ny Fortnite loving daughter "I saw Fornite in a box for sale today Daddy. Who would want that when it's free on the Internet?"

I rest my case.

She says that now but in 5 to 10 years she will be a cassette tape loving hipster that “just wants to feel something real”.

Gemini73 wrote:You'll find the vast majority clinging onto physical media are of a certain age group and who refuse to let go.

Sure, but while those people are alive and have money to spend, why wouldn't the market cater to them? It's otherwise money left on the table.

Moggy wrote:

NickSCFC wrote:

Moggy wrote:I agree with Gemini. The next gen will offer disc drives but I think after that consoles will be download/stream only.

Do we technically need a generation after the next?

I've been watching videos of Resident Evil 2 and DMC V running on Pro/X/PC on YouTube and wondering if games need to look any better? It's already becoming ridiculous with 5 year development lifecycles.

I am pretty sure people were saying that 10 years ago.

Until games look identical to real life, then we will continue to have new technology to make our games prettier. And when they reach absolute photo realism, we will have another gen for virtual reality systems that plug directly into your brain.

There is too much money to be made from new hardware for them to just stop.

I think we might see a more mobile phone style generation system where thinks are backwards and forwards compatible though.

How will these games be developed though? There's been too many developers this generation that haven't been able to keep up and have gone out of business.

Will these "identical to real life" games be a rarity the likes of Naughty Dog and a select few can provide.

We're already seeing development cycles of 5 years or more thanks to the pain-staking detail in games these days.

OrangeRKN wrote:

Gemini73 wrote:You'll find the vast majority clinging onto physical media are of a certain age group and who refuse to let go.

Sure, but while those people are alive and have money to spend, why wouldn't the market cater to them? It's otherwise money left on the table.

Because this industry knows those same people, (the majority at least), for all their harping on about "physical forever, digital never" will still pour money into video games even without a physical option.

The games industry can afford to lose a few stubborn folk along the way.

NickSCFC wrote:

Moggy wrote:

NickSCFC wrote:

Moggy wrote:I agree with Gemini. The next gen will offer disc drives but I think after that consoles will be download/stream only.

Do we technically need a generation after the next?

I've been watching videos of Resident Evil 2 and DMC V running on Pro/X/PC on YouTube and wondering if games need to look any better? It's already becoming ridiculous with 5 year development lifecycles.

I am pretty sure people were saying that 10 years ago.

Until games look identical to real life, then we will continue to have new technology to make our games prettier. And when they reach absolute photo realism, we will have another gen for virtual reality systems that plug directly into your brain.

There is too much money to be made from new hardware for them to just stop.

I think we might see a more mobile phone style generation system where thinks are backwards and forwards compatible though.

How will these games be developed though? There's been too many developers this generation that haven't been able to keep up and have gone out of business.

Will these "identical to real life" games be a rarity the likes of Naughty Dog and a select few can provide.

We're already seeing development cycles of 5 years or more thanks to the pain-staking detail in games these days.

People were saying the same thing about development time and resources 15 years ago.

Technology and improvements in graphics are not going to stop anytime soon. If Sony announces the PS5 or PS6 is the last ever one, then Microsoft will capitalise by continuing to realise more powerful consoles. Which will force Sony to make the PS7.

Moggy wrote:

NickSCFC wrote:

Moggy wrote:

NickSCFC wrote:

Moggy wrote:I agree with Gemini. The next gen will offer disc drives but I think after that consoles will be download/stream only.

Do we technically need a generation after the next?

I've been watching videos of Resident Evil 2 and DMC V running on Pro/X/PC on YouTube and wondering if games need to look any better? It's already becoming ridiculous with 5 year development lifecycles.

I am pretty sure people were saying that 10 years ago.

Until games look identical to real life, then we will continue to have new technology to make our games prettier. And when they reach absolute photo realism, we will have another gen for virtual reality systems that plug directly into your brain.

There is too much money to be made from new hardware for them to just stop.

I think we might see a more mobile phone style generation system where thinks are backwards and forwards compatible though.

How will these games be developed though? There's been too many developers this generation that haven't been able to keep up and have gone out of business.

Will these "identical to real life" games be a rarity the likes of Naughty Dog and a select few can provide.

We're already seeing development cycles of 5 years or more thanks to the pain-staking detail in games these days.

People were saying the same thing about development time and resources 15 years ago.

Technology and improvements in graphics are not going to stop anytime soon. If Sony announces the PS5 or PS6 is the last ever one, then Microsoft will capitalise by continuing to realise more powerful consoles. Which will force Sony to make the PS7.

It'll be interesting to see what Epic show in a couple of weeks at GDC, there really needs to be a big focus on increasingly efficient development.

OrangeRKN wrote:As much as Ugg sounds like an upstanding gent, this isn't analogous to what I said at all. I'm saying that right now physical releases appear to be profitable because right now they are still being produced and released.

Ogg laughed at Ugg’s business model. “Sure you are making stone cicles now, but one day people will want a roof over their heads when worshipping the Gods!”

Ugg was unimpressed by this, “You are stupid Ogg, people are still producing and releasing stone circles, what mad religion would want a roof on their temple? You can’t see the sun and moon if there’s a roof! Stone circles are the way people worship and they are still profitable right now, why would that change?”

At this rate we'll be asking "What have The Romans ever done for us?!"

Gemini73 wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:

Gemini73 wrote:You'll find the vast majority clinging onto physical media are of a certain age group and who refuse to let go.

Sure, but while those people are alive and have money to spend, why wouldn't the market cater to them? It's otherwise money left on the table.

Because this industry knows those same people, (the majority at least), for all their harping on about "physical forever, digital never" will still pour money into video games even without a physical option.

The games industry can afford to lose a few stubborn folk along the way.

Yeh this. There's already a company (https://www.limitedrungames.com/) that sells limited run games. I think the best you can hope for is a limited run of the collectors editions we have today (steel book case, map, stature, trinket) along with a download code for your game.

NickSCFC wrote:

BID0 wrote:[Video Games don't have that luxury as the vast majority of consumers buy games digitally these days (which is increasing year on year) and the creators don't want physical media either.

Is that globally or just the UK?

Definitely the UK. 99% sure it would be worldwide too. I can't think of any markets off the top of my head where digital sales of games would be behind, let alone be a big enough margin to cover all of the countries I can think of where digital downloads are ahead.

NickSCFC wrote:

Moggy wrote:I agree with Gemini. The next gen will offer disc drives but I think after that consoles will be download/stream only.

Do we technically need a generation after the next?

I've been watching videos of Resident Evil 2 and DMC V running on Pro/X/PC on YouTube and wondering if games need to look any better? It's already becoming ridiculous with 5 year development lifecycles.

Can't speak for PC but on X1X, but Resi 2 is not a game I'd use to 'showcase' the X. It's looking like Metro Exodus/The Division 2 should take that mantle but from what I own, RDR2, Sea of Thieves and AC Odyssey are jaw dropping at times.