Mass Effect: Andromeda

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KomandaHeck
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX panel (p3)
by KomandaHeck » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:05 pm

I'll give Alvin the benefit of the doubt in not hating the ending seeing as he played it with the EC, Leviathan and Citadel DLCs which majorly soften the blow. It's still not a satisfying ending no matter how much they try to polish it but a big part of what made it so horrible to me was not so much the narrative inconsistencies/problems (the series has been riddled with them since the beginning of ME2), but just how unexpected and swift it was. I'm introduced to an entirely new character, the central conflict is changed and I'm asked to choose from three vague, non-sensical options to conclude the trilogy in the space of about 10 lines of dialogue and 5 minutes.

The shift in quality is so jarring. ME3 has many issues outside of the ending, but when you look at how they managed to perfectly conclude a long-running story arc within the same game in the Tuchanka section, I'm just like what the strawberry float happened there when it comes to the actual finale?!

Even if you're someone whose somewhat happy with how it ended, there are so many missing pieces that require fan-wank to make sense of. That's not a good thing, even if your theories are solid. Still, I'm well past being actively annoyed at the ending. I'm just hopeful that they give the series a fresh start and don't try to tie events of the next game into the trilogy somehow, they've made enough of a mess already.

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Skarjo
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX panel (p3)
by Skarjo » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:14 pm

The Tuchanka mission still stings, because that was so unbelievably well executed in every way; from the strong narrative coherence, the way it builds on storylines that ran through all instalments, the way it incorporates all your previous choices from the preceding games and still manages to expand on them by giving you genuinely meaningful choices with genuinely large ramifications in how you want to conclude that whole arc; that it just made the ending that much more bitter a pill to swallow. And then watching that huge sand-snake thing taking down a reaper. :wub:

I mean, how they could get Tuchanka so right and the ending so wrong is just baffling.

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Codename 47
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX panel (p3)
by Codename 47 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:42 pm

Tuchunka and Rannoch were by far the highlights of ME3 for me :datass: Apparently missions and story arcs like Tuchunka were written, discussed and finalised among groups of writers and game directors (as you'd expect during game development) whereas the ending was just decided upon between just Mac Walters and Casey Hudson - no one else.

One of many things I don't understand is how Sovereign and Harbinger were portrayed as almost actively hating organics (Harbinger seemed to revel in his victims being put through pain), but then you get the Ghost child saying how the Reapers aren't interested in war, trying to help organics and all that crap.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX panel (p3)
by Lagamorph » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:44 pm

One of the biggest betrayals of the ending was,

Casey Hudson wrote:"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C."
"It's more like there are some really obvious things that are different and then lots and lots of smaller things, lots of things about who lives and who dies, civilizations that rose and fell, all the way down to individual characters. That becomes the state of where you left your galaxy. The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them."


They promise "You wont just get ending A, B or C" then what they give is ending A, B or C :x :fp:

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Pedz
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX panel (p3)
by Pedz » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:02 pm

Why were all the Reapers exactly the same in ME3, but in ME2 you see a strawberry float ton of them and they are all shapes and sizes?

And when asking about why the Star Child thing didn't help Sovereign, who knows, but then with the Star Child, what was the point of Soverign as the Star Child could have done gooseberry fool without Sovereign ever being there? At least you think he/it could.

Tbh I really liked the ME games, but, the ending of 3 was shite. I also wasn't a fan of the human reaper in ME2.

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Hexx
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX panel (p3)
by Hexx » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:10 pm

Skarjo » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:14 pm wrote:The Tuchanka mission still stings, because that was so unbelievably well executed in every way; from the strong narrative coherence, the way it builds on storylines that ran through all instalments, the way it incorporates all your previous choices from the preceding games and still manages to expand on them by giving you genuinely meaningful choices with genuinely large ramifications in how you want to conclude that whole arc; that it just made the ending that much more bitter a pill to swallow. And then watching that huge sand-snake thing taking down a reaper. :wub:

I mean, how they could get Tuchanka so right and the ending so wrong is just baffling.



http://www.gamesthirst.com/2012/03/25/m ... ys-silent/

Patrick Weekes has been writing Mass Effect story from the first game, but ever since the scandal about Mass Effect 3′s ending broke, Weekes revealed that he and others were locked out of game’s ending, leaving the conclusion to none other than franchise executive producer Casey Hudson. Many have reached out to Hudson for a response on this latest revelation, however he’s said nothing.

This whole problem stemmed from Bioware advertising Mass Effect 3 as having many, many endings, but when gamers played the game, they realized it didn’t matter how they played, or what class they chose, Mass Effect 3′s ending was the same. A massive failure on Bioware ‘s end, who’ve, in the past, made multiple endings for the popular WRPG.

Patrick Weekes’ Tells All

When the scandal became overwhelming, Mass Effect writer Patrick Weekes decided that he’d reveal what really happened behind the scenes, making known that he and others had nothing to do with how the game ended because they were essentially banned from even giving input, adding that what you experience in Mass Effect 3′s conclusion is completely Casey Hudson’s take on the franchise.

Here’s Weekes:

“I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to our squad, b) having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn’t automatically die in that shuttle crash, and c) having written Tali’s goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote (Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc).

No other writer did, either, except for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself, sitting in a room and going through draft after draft.

And honestly, it kind of shows.

Every other mission in the game had to be held up to the rest of the writing team, and the writing team then picked it apart and made suggestions and pointed out the parts that made no sense. This mission? Casey and our lead deciding that they didn’t need to be peer-reviewed

And again, it shows.

If you’d asked me the themes of Mass Effect 3, I’d break them down as:

Galactic Alliances

Friends

Organics versus Synthetics

In my personal opinion, the first two got a perfunctory nod. We did get a goodbye to our friends, but it was in a scene that was divorced from the gameplay — a deliberate “nothing happens here” area with one turret thrown in for no reason I really understand, except possibly to obfuscate the “nothing happens here”-ness. The best missions in our game are the ones in which the gameplay and the narrative reinforce each other. The end of the Genophage campaign exemplifies that for me — every line of dialog is showing you both sides of the krogan, be they horrible brutes or proud warriors; the art shows both their bombed-out wasteland and the beautiful world they once had and could have again; the combat shows the terror of the Reapers as well as a blatant reminder of the rachni, which threatened the galaxy and had to be stopped by the krogan last time. Every line of code in that mission is on target with the overall message.

The endgame doesn’t have that. I wanted to see banshees attacking you, and then have asari gunships zoom in and blow them away. I wanted to see a wave of rachni ravagers come around a corner only to be met by a wall of krogan roaring a battle cry. Here’s the horror the Reapers inflicted upon each race, and here’s the army that you, Commander Shepard, made out of every race in the galaxy to fight them.

I personally thought that the Illusive Man conversation was about twice as long as it needed to be — something that I’ve been told in my peer reviews of my missions and made edits on, but again, this is a conversation no writer but the lead ever saw until it was already recorded. I did love Anderson’s goodbye.

For me, Anderson’s goodbye is where it ended. The stuff with the Catalyst just… You have to understand. Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he’s not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn’t hate it, but I didn’t love it.

And then, just to be a dick… what was SUPPOSED to happen was that, say you picked “Destroy the Reapers”. When you did that, the system was SUPPOSED to look at your score, and then you’d show a cutscene of Earth that was either:

a) Very high score: Earth obviously damaged, but woo victory

b) Medium score: Earth takes a bunch of damage from the Crucible activation. Like dropping a bomb on an already war-ravaged city. Uh, well, maybe not LIKE that as much as, uh, THAT.

c) Low score: Earth is a cinderblock, all life on it completely wiped out

I have NO IDEA why these different cutscenes aren’t in there. As far as I know, they were never cut. Maybe they were cut for budget reasons at the last minute. I don’t know. But holy crap, yeah, I can see how incredibly disappointing it’d be to hear of all the different ending possibilities and have it break down to “which color is stuff glowing?” Or maybe they ARE in, but they’re too subtle to really see obvious differences, and again, that’s… yeah.

Okay, that’s a lot to have written for something that’s gonna go away in an hour.

I still teared up at the ending myself, but really, I was tearing up for the quick flashbacks to old friends and the death of Anderson. I wasn’t tearing up over making a choice that, as it turned out, didn’t have enough cutscene differentiation on it.

And to be clear, I don’t even really wish Shepard had gotten a ride-off-into-sunset ending. I was honestly okay with Shepard sacrificing himself. I just expected it to be for something with more obvious differentiation, and a stronger tie to the core themes — all three of them.”

In recent days we’ve seen Amazon and Origin refund disgruntled gamers, and the ‘Take Mass Effect Back‘ movement collect more than $40,000 to raise awareness of the RPG’s ending. We’ll reach out to Hudson for a response on this damning write up by Weekes.

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Alvin Flummux
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX panel (p3)
by Alvin Flummux » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:38 pm

Reading that, man... what the hell happened there? I see a lot of good points about the ending there, and in the above posts, and would now actually really appreciate a re-write. That stuff about seeing your allies jumping in sounded amazing. I won't die if there isn't one, though... but boy do I see things in a different light now.

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SEP
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX panel (p3)
by SEP » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:43 am

Wait, so the Leviathan DLC was essentially "A Wizard Did It" in video game form?

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Alvin Flummux
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX panel (p3)
by Alvin Flummux » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:13 am

How do you mean?

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TheTurnipKing
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Teaser images + game to use FrostbiteEn
by TheTurnipKing » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:33 am

In the whole ME3 furore it was the gamer's at most fault for demanding Bioware go back and change the ending.

No. It wasn't.

Or they wouldn't have ALSO messed up Dragon Age 2 and The Old Republic.


The decline of Bioware is very clearly and specifically traceable to the purchase of Bioware by EA and the corresponding loss of talented key employees who didn't want to "create" in the corporate environment.

If EA couldn't handle it's audience being dissatisfied with Mass Effect's ending, they have NO PLACE in the business of creating interactive entertainment.

Here's the thing though: EA demonstrably didn't give a gooseberry fool, because they were quite happy with the returns from their shoed in multiplayer and EA Ultimate Team style card shenanigans, and as long as their new game has that in spades, they will continue to give no gooseberry fools. If you have ANY love for the Mass Effect fiction, you will bail out now and NEVER look back.

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Buffalo
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX panel (p3)
by Buffalo » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:25 am

Ridiculous hyperbole.

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TheTurnipKing
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a
by TheTurnipKing » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:29 am

I don't think so.

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Kanbei
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX panel (p3)
by Kanbei » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:32 am

Apart from the ending Mass Effect 3 was fantastic. The multiplayer was enjoyable as well.

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TheTurnipKing
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX panel (p3)
by TheTurnipKing » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:37 am

Kanbei » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:32 am wrote:Apart from the ending Mass Effect 3 was fantastic. The multiplayer was enjoyable as well.


The quality and attention to detail was entirely beyond reproach.

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Banjo
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX panel (p3)
by Banjo » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:08 pm

What annoyed me most about Mass Effect 3 was Bioware continually trying to push their version of Shepard over that of the player's own creation. I never felt like my Shepard had quite as much character as in earlier instalments, with little things like the way they were really trying to push Kaidan forward (he survived in my game) despite the fact that I had not given a second though to him for almost two games. That and the stupid dream sequences, MY Shepard didn't give a solitary strawberry float about some stupid kid (especially given the vicious bloodthirsty swathe I had cut through the galaxy prior to this) and the characters I were interested in were relegated to satisfying but all-too-brief appearances. Tuchanka and Rannoch were great but all the while there was this creeping dread that this was becoming less of a player-driven story and Bioware's guiding hand became all too prominent.

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Alvin Flummux
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX 2013 panel (p3
by Alvin Flummux » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:05 pm

Realistically speaking, what are the odds that a rewrite of the ending could happen?

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Hexx
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX 2013 panel (p3
by Hexx » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:06 pm

0

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Hexx
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX 2013 panel (p3
by Hexx » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:07 pm

You can just install/watch the Happy Ending Mod though.

It's not flawless, but cuts out the entire fuss with the Catalyst/Star Child.

You might complain it's "Happy", but my Shepherd earned being rescued


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Skarjo
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX 2013 panel (p3
by Skarjo » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:07 pm

Hexx wrote:0


And that's optimistic.

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Codename 47
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PostRe: New Mass Effect: Info from a "secret" PAX 2013 panel (p3
by Codename 47 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:08 pm

Alvin Flummux » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:05 pm wrote:Realistically speaking, what are the odds that a rewrite of the ending could happen?


The Extended Cut was Bioware's best chance to do that but Casey Hudson insisted that artistic integrity should be allowed to stand hence why they weren't going to re-write the ending with the extended cut DLC. With the game being 2 years old now, like Hexx said, there's zero chance of them going back to the ending now.


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