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Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:23 pm
by Somebody Else's Problem
Hexx wrote:Or why Control is evil at all


It's an age-old story. Supercomputer gains sentience, decides it doesn't like being used as a tool by ugly bags of mostly water, decides to destroy all life.

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:30 pm
by Peter Crisp
Somebody Else's Problem wrote:
Hexx wrote:Or why Control is evil at all


It's an age-old story. Supercomputer gains sentience, decides it doesn't like being used as a tool by ugly bags of mostly water, decides to destroy all life.


Everyone's entitled to a hobby and the AI just chose to wipe all life from the galaxy.
It's a niche choice and not everyone's cup of tea but you have to respect its dedication to it.

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:11 pm
by Karl_
Hexx wrote:Or why Control is evil at all

I think this was fairly well implied -- it's a representation of Section 31's moral ambiguity taken to an evil extreme, an allegory for how "security" can turn into fascism. I don't think the viewer needs a breakdown of the lines of code that went wrong to get that impression (though obvs fair enough if you didn't feel it came through).

It's not without some holes but I felt the core thrust of the plot was good enough.

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:42 am
by TV Dinner
So having now caught up I have the strong feeling Control Leland + time travel is going to be the origin of the borg.

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:31 am
by Hexx
Dear God. That Batman's Nipple's of Klingons are back


Who cares that Section 31's fleet (WTF?!?!?! And that everyone knows) about is chasing you and will follow you if you warp.


YOU HAVE A SPORE DRIVE. You can go ANYWHERE in an instant.



​​​​​​​Actually come to think about it - why doesn't control care about the Spore Drive?

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:19 pm
by Peter Crisp
Hexx wrote:Dear God. That Batman's Nipple's of Klingons are back


Who cares that Section 31's fleet (WTF?!?!?! And that everyone knows) about is chasing you and will follow you if you warp.


YOU HAVE A SPORE DRIVE. You can go ANYWHERE in an instant.



​​​​​​​Actually come to think about it - why doesn't control care about the Spore Drive?


It's busy trying to find an unlimited source of cheese, cake and coffee :roll: .
I know I would be if I had unlimited power.

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:07 am
by Hexx
This wasn't offensively bad as previous weeks - but a week of transparent manipulation of "moments" is annoying. 



They need to have a decision making process other than "Do whatever Michael" says...



Why can't Discovery's shields just be worn down? Why doesn't someone just go over and shoot the warp core with a phaser? Boom! 



The long goodbyes to everyone we've barely come to know where about as affecting as Ariam's funeral.


WHY DOES PIKE HAVE TIME FOR A COSTUME CHANGE!??!




Have they ever actually had a plan to deal with Control now? It's got a fleet. Can infiltrate anywhere undetected, is seemingly all knowing and powerful, is disrupting communications, knows where there's an undefended planet of time crystals...but if they send the Sphere Data to the future (so it can't become MORE artificially intelligent) job done.

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:47 pm
by samoza
I read my book through most of the last episode. Long periods of not much happening. I don't think they needs this much filler.

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:56 pm
by Hexx
samoza wrote:I read my book through most of the last episode. Long periods of not much happening. I don't think they needs this much filler.


They ended last week surrounded and outgunned by Section 31's fleet

They end this week surrounded and outgunned by Section 31's fleet again!


That story momentum

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:57 pm
by mcjihge2
I stopped watching S2 a few weeks ago and yesterday went back to where i left off. S2E8 - Talos IV and S2E9 - Project Daedalus. These two episodes really seem to have ramped up the drama, really good. Looking on IMDB they are the highest rated ones of the series. Has my viewing now peaked?

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:13 am
by Lagamorph
I've just caught up with Season 2 and whilst it's a definite improvement over Season 1 it still has issues.


The whole 'Time Suit' thing is utter BS for this era of Trek and is something that belongs in a post-Nemesis series, not something invented 30 years before TOS. Even 31st Century Starfleet didn't have anything like that.

Section 31 being so public and even to the point of having an entire fleet of their own ships is pretty canon breaking. DS9 and ENT both showed Section 31 operate in secret, and you'd think when looking into them in DS9 someone might have mentioned "Oh yeah that massive branch of Starfleet Intelligence that had a few dozen ships of their own and the black badges". That's not the kind of thing you can suddenly hush up. It would be like America trying to suddenly purge all public knowledge across the entire Earth of the CIA existing. Even if they say later in the series that Section 31 is officially disbanded but a few people carry on as we've seen them operate in DS9, the cat was already out of the bag.

Adding to the canon is fine, but it has to be done in a way that respects the existing canon. A few minor tweaks here and there is fine, but the DSC writers still seem hell bent on ignoring canon at best, or just purposefully going against it. Enterprise managed to get this right so it's clearly possible.


And some personal annoyances,
The Warp Speed effect is still needlessly changed. The old effect had persisted since TOS movies and was an iconic representation of travelling at Warp speed. There was no need to go for a Kelvin-verse effect. At least in the Kelvin-verse the new effect makes sense, here it absolutely doesn't.

I don't know if it's the writing or just the actor, but Tyler constantly putting an H at the end of Klingon words is really strawberry floating annoying. It's "Kahless" and "Qo'nos", not "Kahlesh" and "Qo'nosh". It wouldn't be so bad if we'd only ever heard humans pronounce the words in English, but we hear Klingons pronounce them whilst speaking in Klingon MULTIPLE times in TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT, so there's no excuse for it.

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:21 am
by Somebody Else's Problem
Just thought that if they do manage to jump forward 500 years, they're not going to be stuck there. Captain Braxton will just show up and send them back.

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:27 am
by Lagamorph
TV Dinner wrote:So having now caught up I have the strong feeling Control Leland + time travel is going to be the origin of the borg.

There would have to be some MASSIVE time travel fuckery for that to happen.
The Borg have been active for hundreds of thousands of years according to TNG, and recognisable in their 24th century form for at least 900 years according to Voyager, so Control/Leland would have to go nearly a million years back in time for that to make sense.

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:31 am
by Karl_
I guess I agree with all of Laga's points from a Trek nerd perspective. It hasn't upset me too much though, I'm more interested in themes and pacing, and this season has improved both (not perfect, but some solid eps).

I've been rewatching TNG and to be honest the canon is a bit looser than I remember it. :lol:

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:14 am
by Peter Crisp
While I have a few complaints about Discovery one thing I can't complain about is just how much story is going on.
When I compare it to something like Stargate Universe Series 1 which had so little story it would spend entire episodes about a mission to get water with very little actually happening, it's almost story overload in Discovery.

I do find it odd though that when we see people being flung into the far future we don't see them just being curious about trying to find out the history of the time they've missed. I know if I went 100 years into the future I'd be looking for some kind of condensed format overview of all the global news and tech events from the time since I left as it would be bloody fascinating.

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:50 am
by Hexx
Well that was chuffin stupid


’Control is defeated!

Well no one question that! To the future we go!

And let us never speak of Armin Tamzarin Micheal Burnham again

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:18 am
by Somebody Else's Problem
Oh look, Hexx hates a Discovery episode that for some reason he still decided to watch despite hating every episode thus far. That's not at all tedious or predictable.

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:59 pm
by Lagamorph
So a few thoughts after watching the last episode,

  • Over 180 shuttles/pods? strawberry float off with that bullshit. If they'd had a dozen starships, maybe, just maybe they could swing that many, but with just the Discovery and Enterprise? Unless virtually the entirity of their secondary hulls were given over to shuttle storage then there's no way they could store that many. This is Shonen Anime levels of ass pull writing where they wanted to do big thing but had no idea how to do big thing, so they just went "strawberry float it" and did the big thing anyway.
  • The hand waving of "Ok so we just make everyone promise to never talk about Discovery, the Spore Drive, Section 31 and Control" is just....ugh. I guess it's about the best they could do after finally realising they made some serious mis-steps canon wise with these 2 seasons, but it still would've been better to have not made those mistakes in the first place.
  • The whole Time Suit thing is still stupid, the final episode did nothing to change that. Hopefully it gets destroyed in Season 3 and then never brought up again.


And a bit of a wish list for Season 3,
  • Stop making Michael the center of the Universe. For 2 seasons literally everything has revolved around her, it's time to move on.
  • Move back towards less over-arching plot that lasts an entire season and move back towards more standalone episodes. Even when DS9 had the Dominion War going on it found time for making it a background even while having episodes that stood well on their own individual merits. Enterprise even managed it during Season 3 (In an arc that really should've been tied up in half a season at most really) so there's no reason Discovery can't do the same if they absolutely have to have some huge plot going on.
  • Settle on a cast. Whilst Pike was definitely great, I'd like to see them actually settle on a core cast and stick with them for a while.
  • Never ever ever bring back Po. I don't quite know why but I just can't stand her.


I'm coming across as more negative than I want to really, overall I am enjoying the show, it just seems it's suffering the curse of the first few seasons of a Trek show being pretty weak. Normally they perk up to standard by Season 3 (Though DS9 took until Season 4) so hopefully that'll be the case here.

So far though, this is definitely the weakest Trek show.

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:00 pm
by Peter Crisp
I watched the final episode and I quite liked it but a few hours later I watched the final episode of The Orville and the contrast just couldn't be more stark.

The Orville finale was in the mould of classic Next Gen with a great premise and fantastic acting from all the cast. There was great political drama and an overall hugely uplifting feel to the episode.

Of the two The Orville was by far the better and just proved yet again that Sci-fi doesn't need to be gritty and dark it needs good stories and yes, sometimes a good old fashioned good triumphing over evil plotline.

Re: Star Trek Discovery

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:07 pm
by Lagamorph
I've actually held off on watching season 2 of The Orville, I've got it ready to binge on my Sky Q box though. I wanted to wait for it to be finished so I didn't have to keep waiting week to week.

But yeah, Season 1 of The Orville was better than both seasons of Discovery have been so far.