News: Elder Scrolls 6 & Starfield announced by Bethesda. Next Gen games.

Tafdolphin wrote:Fallout 3's cast wasn't exactly a cavalcade of classic characters but at least it has moments of greatness like the Gary vault and The Republic of Dave. Fallout 4, and even Skyrim, had nothing but bland, boring shells for a questgivers, so much so I can't remember a single name from either game.

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Mainstream doesn't have to mean dull, and I don't think it's an excuse for the degrading quality of Bethesda's output.

Yeah for sure it's not an excuse, I just think it's an explanation for why it isn't their focus. It's not what the mainstream audience cares about, they like forever going on fetch quests and not caring about the character sending them.

Fallout 4 has a few good characters but they are very one note. Ironsides is my favourite, a robot who thinks himself a colonial naval captain. That quest is the most memorable in the game for me, but things like that are unfortunately rare.

Tafdolphin wrote:EDIT: I'm not disagreeing with you here I just don't think the mainstreaming of Beth games is all that's happened to the studio. I think they've made bad games for several years now because, I dunno, over reliance on brand name and formula?

Where we probably differ is that I don't think any of their games are bad games, I just think they are bad when judged as RPGs. Case in point would be my great enjoyment of the settlement building in Fallout 4 and 76 - I have a ton of fun with it but it's sort of irrelevant to discussing what makes a good or bad RPG because it's not even remotely the same genre of gameplay

Jenuall wrote:...although the spaces in Daggerfall never really had that hand of design on them and so felt a bit lacking in character and quality to go with their size!

This is true, although I think it's entirely forgivable given the game's scope and their limitations at the time. The Witcher 3 definitely shows how a similar experience can be elevated through hand-crafted design.

i think more than the story or anything my biggest issue with skyrim and bethesda games is that they just arent fun to like actually play
the combat's weightless and janky; i guess it's a carry over from older styles of rpg
and actually moving through the world isn't enjoyable because the only movement options available are a slow jog or a really glitchy horse, so by the time I get anywhere I'm already too bored to keep playing

also yeah what little I've experienced of the story and side quests is pretty phoned in and uninteresting

VlaSoul wrote:i think more than the story or anything my biggest issue with skyrim and bethesda games is that they just arent fun to like actually play
the combat's weightless and janky

It really depends on your build. There is a reason that people tend towards a sneaky archer, and that's because it's just a lot more fun than other options. I also think sword and shield is serviceable enough once you've got perks in shield bashes and charge attacks etc. It's just a matter of leveling up to that point and getting those perks.

The shooting in Fallout is good and has been getting better.

One thing they really need to sort out is the loading time issue.

One of the great things about Division 2 is the almost complete lack of loading screens and if they can make Elder Scrolls 6 into a seamless world I think I'd take a slightly less graphically intensive game if it had to be a choice.

Being able to just wander into a dungeon or city and not have to wait for a loading screen would make a pretty huge difference.

OrangeRKN wrote:

VlaSoul wrote:i think more than the story or anything my biggest issue with skyrim and bethesda games is that they just arent fun to like actually play
the combat's weightless and janky

It really depends on your build. There is a reason that people tend towards a sneaky archer, and that's because it's just a lot more fun than other options. I also think sword and shield is serviceable enough once you've got perks in shield bashes and charge attacks etc. It's just a matter of leveling up to that point and getting those perks.

The shooting in Fallout is good and has been getting better.

I'm playing through it at the moment and the swordplay does feel quite disappointing. It's like they've tried to make the combat feel more exciting by hiking up the rumble and giving you the FINAL BLOW DRAMATIC CAMERA ANGLES but in combat you literally just stand there pressing the trigger and swinging your sword while the enemy doesn't even flinch and just keeps stabbing you as both your health bars gradually dwindle.

It's nice that you've got the option of using the bows and the magic and everything, because if I literally just had the hack and slash combat I'd have probably got bored long ago.

Yeah the combat is and has always been bobbins in Elder Scrolls games. My core issue with the games is that they are the embodiment of "Jack of all trades" design - there is a lot going on in the games, you can fight, you can shoot arrows, you can do magic, you can talk to people, you can explore, you can sneak ... but none of it is achieved to any degree of finesse or real quality.

It's even more annoying considering the resources that they have available to them, the examples they could be drawing on from other games and the fact that, as a publisher Bethesda have access to some incredibly talented people at places like Arkane and ID - why are they not drawing on their expertise in some of these areas astounds me! The combat in DOOM feels intense and viceral, the movement and environment traversal in Dishonored is sublime, the powers and how they are implemented in those games could be a great template for spells in an Elder Scrolls game as well, stop pushing out the same turgid gameplay and draw on some of this FFS!

Tafdolphin wrote:- A new isometric Fallout game from Obsidian called Fallout Really We're Sorry.

Not likely.

Anyway, I really REALLY loved Skyrim at the time but it's true that The Witcher 3 completely blew that out of the water. I still enjoy Skyrim and Fallout 4 not least cos they look pretty sweet in 4K.

OrangeRKN wrote:

VlaSoul wrote:i think more than the story or anything my biggest issue with skyrim and bethesda games is that they just arent fun to like actually play
the combat's weightless and janky

It really depends on your build. There is a reason that people tend towards a sneaky archer, and that's because it's just a lot more fun than other options. I also think sword and shield is serviceable enough once you've got perks in shield bashes and charge attacks etc. It's just a matter of leveling up to that point and getting those perks.

The shooting in Fallout is good and has been getting better.

Fair enough I guess but that doesn't change how undynamic the core combat gameplay in TES feels; literally adding the ability to dodge roll (or something equivalent that works in first person) and making enemies more mobile would add a lot
Also like since it's so gooseberry fool in the beginning there's simply no reason for me to keep playing just to level up to a vaguely more fun class

Frank wrote:I'm playing through [Skyrim] at the moment and the swordplay does feel quite disappointing. It's like they've tried to make the combat feel more exciting by hiking up the rumble and giving you the FINAL BLOW DRAMATIC CAMERA ANGLES but in combat you literally just stand there pressing the trigger and swinging your sword while the enemy doesn't even flinch and just keeps stabbing you as both your health bars gradually dwindle.

It's not the only option for swordplay, but it's definitely a problem with design that you can easily fall into this pattern. If you do a sword and shield build you can avoid what you've described by blocking incoming attack with the shield, and using the shield bash to reliably stagger the opponent and open them up for free sword hits. Add things like sprint power attacks and the combat is still hardly character action, but it's definitely more than just whittling down health bars. Also on the final blow camera pans and animations, I think they actually do add something - especially once you've got a decapitation perk!