Nomicade [Forum Game] It's all over

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PostNomicade [Forum Game] It's all over
by OrangeRKN » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:05 pm

Peter Suber wrote:Nomic is a game in which changing the rules is a move. In that respect it differs from almost every other game. The primary activity of Nomic is proposing changes in the rules, debating the wisdom of changing them in that way, voting on the changes, deciding what can and cannot be done afterwards, and doing it. Even this core of the game, of course, can be changed.


Welcome to our game of Nomic! I struggled to find a standard set of rules for forum play, so I wrote my own initial set. If there are problems with it, I suggest we amend them during play ;)

The Original Rules wrote:1. Anyone may join the game at any time by posting in the thread.

2. Any player may propose a new rule or propose an amendment to an existing rule.

3. Every player is entitled to vote on proposed rules or amendments. Each player has a single vote on each proposed rule or amendment, including their own.

4. A proposed rule or amendment will be adopted and the ruleset adjusted accordingly on reaching a majority of three votes in favour.

5. A proposed rule or amendment will be dismissed on reaching a majority of three votes against.

6. Each player can only have a maximum of one proposed rule or proposed amendment up for voting at any one time.

7. A player can dismiss their own proposed rule or amendment at any time during voting.

8. Any disagreement over the interpretation of a rule must be settled by majority vote.


The Rules wrote:Rules creation and amendment

1. Anyone may join the game at any time by posting in the thread.

2. Any player may propose a new rule or propose an amendment to an existing rule.

3. Every player is entitled to vote on proposed rules or amendments. Each player has a single vote on each proposed rule or amendment, including their own.

4. A proposed rule or amendment will be adopted and the ruleset adjusted accordingly on reaching a majority of three votes in favour.

5. A proposed rule or amendment will be dismissed on reaching a majority of three votes against.

6. Each player can only have a maximum of one proposed rule or proposed amendment up for voting at any one time.

7. A player can dismiss their own proposed rule or amendment at any time during voting.

8. Any disagreement over the interpretation of a rule must be settled by majority vote.

9. On successful adoption of a player's proposed rule, that player will gain three Forum Doubloons. Any player who voted in favour of the rule (excluding the player who proposed it) will gain one Forum Doubloon.

10. 'If a player has a proposed rule rejected. They have to apologise for wasting all of our time in a post, within 3 posts or 1 hour after the rule was rejected. Otherwise they will lose a Forum Doubloon. "

14. if you successfully propose a rule that gets adopted, you get to come up with one name change to be forced onto Dan at some point in the future.

24. A rule proposal must be clearly declared and visible with the rule text contained on its own within a single quote box. Whenever voted on, the voter must re-post the rule in the same format, with an accurate vote count below it including votes for, votes against, and the current majority. Votes for and votes against must include both the total count and the list of voters for each.

A proposed rule amendment must be treated the same, except both the original rule text and the proposed amendment should be separately quoted.

Example rule proposal:

OrangeRKN wrote:I propose a new rule:

This is the text of a new rule


Votes for: 1 (OrangeRKN)
Votes against: 0
Majority: +1


25. All rules should be categorised to allow easier comprehension of the rules of the game. Categories can be added as an when required by the standard proposal mechanism and all new proposals should indicate the category to which they belong.

The initial set of categories and assignment of rules within them will be as follows:

- Rules creation and amendment (1-10, 14, 24)
- Posting restrictions (12, 17, 19, 20)
- Win conditions (23)
- Team rules (11, 13, 22)
- Standalone rules (15, 18)
- One-time rules (16)

The rules list on P1 shall be updated to list the rules by their category

Posting restrictions

12. If no new proposals are made in a period of 48 hours, any rules preventing proposals being made are suspended until the next new rule is adopted. This rule shall be known as the "Hexx smells rule".

17. Consecutive posts cannot result in any Forum Doubloons being gained for the player who makes them, or any Forum Doubloons being lost by any other player.

19. Standard No Outside Contact rules apply: no PMing each other with game-integral matters, no coded messages, and no post editing!

20. Each participant shall be limited to three successful rule or amendment proposals per day. Should a participant exceed their allotted amount in a 24 hour period, they shall be docked one Forum Doubloon.

30. The punishment for editing a post is that the guilty player's entire Forum Doubloons instantly become the property of the bank. Players with zero or fewer Forum Doubloons who edit posts become indebted to the bank by ten forum doubloons per edit, meaning the next ten Doubloons they gain via any means go direct to the bank.

Win conditions

23. As the person with the knowledge of the roles of all other players, OrangeRakoon is granted the title of Game Master. His win condition is met if the cumulative total of Forum Doubloons owned by all players within the game is equal to or greater than 100. Upon winning the game, he can choose to conclude it, or allow it to continue in order for a winning 'side' to emerge from the remaining players.

28. The objective of the game for the Investigators is to reveal the identity of all Aberration players. The Investigators win if a rule is adopted that correctly states the identity of all Aberration players and does not incorrectly claim any Investigator players as Aberration players, as confirmed by the Game Master. If an incorrect claim is made in an adopted rule that is voted for by at least one Investigators player, one existing player on the Investigators team will change over to the Aberrations team, as chosen at random by the Game Master, and will be so informed via PM from the Game Master.

31. The Aberrations win the game if their combined Forum Doubloon total is greater than double the total of the Investigators.

33. If, over any contiguous 72 hour timespan, exactly zero members of a team post in this game thread, that team loses the game and cannot win. If a team loses by this rule, and subsequently only one remaining team has not lost, that remaining team automatically wins. All teams are assumed to have spoken at the time of this rule being first passed (so no team can lose through this rule until three days after it has been passed, but this clause is not triggered by amendments unless the text of amendment specifies otherwise).

Team rules

11. OrangeRKN must randomly assign all other players to a team, "Investigators" or "Aberrations", and in secret notify them of their team by PM, as soon as reasonably possible after their first post. (The assignment will be made by roll of a d4: 1-3 Investigators 4 Aberrations.)

13. An Aberration player with at least 5 Forum Doubloons (to symbolise their growing power) may place a posting restriction on another player for their next ten in-game non-consecutive posts. The posting restriction shall be submitted privately to OrangeRKN in a PM, who shall inform the target (and also gets to decide if the posting restriction is reasonable I guess) in a PM likewise. The player may not submit another posting restriction for another 48h.

22. An Investigator can exchange five Forum Doubloons for the ability to PM OR with, ‘Investigate [username].’ 24h-ish later, OR will return their actual team name to the Investigator via PM. An investigator must then wait another 24h before investigating again.

32. An Aberration player can spend five Forum Doubloons to target their corrupting influence at another player by PMing the Game Master with "Corrupt [username]". The targeted player will be in a corrupted state for the next 48 hours, and will not be made aware of this. Any investigations (see rule 22) made against a corrupted player will return as showing them in the Aberrations team, regardless of their true team alignment.

Standalone rules

15. At any time, a player can post quoting another player and amend the subject line of said post to state "I Love You, But I'm Stealing Your Forum Doubloon". In doing so, the player making the post will steal one Forum Doubloon from the player they quoted, unless the quoted player makes a post of their own with the subject line "Not Today, Baby" no more than three posts after the "I Love You..." post. Any players whose username has changed during the course of the game are exempt from the effects of this rule.
A player may not target any other player more than once a day. This shall be known as the "WTF were you thinking"? Amendment

18.
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21. This rule cannot be amended. This rule cannot be removed. Any reference to this rule incurs a 10 point penalty. This rule takes precedence over all other rules.

27. A player with five Forum Doubloons or more may at any time challenge another play to a Dual (correct spelling) by saying, ‘I CHALLENGE YE [username]’ in-thread. The players will then exchange three posts each (challenger, challenged, challenger, challenged, challenger, challenged in that order) telling the story of their epic Dual. Double posts are not allowed to contribute to the Dual, and the player whose go it is’ next post WILL be considered as part of the Dual, whether it’s meant to be or not. (They may double-post afterwards in a manner that is not part of the Dual.)

The player with the least Doubloons in-game at the time who is not a Duallist decides who ‘won’. If either player goes more than 18h or ten posts (excluding double-posts) without responding, their opponent wins by default. The winner steals five Doubloons from the loser, or however many positive Doubloons the loser has if less than five.

If multiple people are tied for least Doubloons outside the Dual, the first person to give a victor with reasoning will hold sway. If 3h go by without a victor being announced, any non-Duallist can declare a victor.

Only one Dual can be taking place at once. A player must wait 24h between their issued challenge ending and issuing another. The player challenged cannot be challenged for 48h after their Dual ends.

YARRRRR. (This is part of the rule.)

29. There shall exist a bank. At any time, any player can propose that they will deposit any amount of their Forum Doubloons or Euros into the bank, or withdraw any amount of currently available funds from the bank. Any such proposal is subject to all the same criteria all other rule proposals are subject to as per the rules of the game e.g. a player proposing "I withdraw 10 Forum Doubloons from and deposit 10 Euros into the bank" can only do so upon their proposal passing with a majority of +3 votes.

It is not possible for the bank to go into negative values for any currency at any point in the game. This aspect of this rule cannot be removed or amended at any time.

34. All players must have fun, even if they lose. Any expression of non-fun, determined entirely at the discretion of a member of the Fun Police, carries a penalty of one Fun Point. All players initially have zero Fun Points, except for the Game Master who has 500 Fun Points. A player can only be considered part of the Fun Police (which is not a team, but an affiliated group of individuals) when they have a positive value of Fun Points. Fun Points can be gifted to other players by members of the Fun Police in response to notable in-thread expressions of fun, as determined entirely at the discretion of a member of the Fun Police.

36. Upon the passing of this rule, all penalties for previous edits of the OP are revoked.

From that point in time onwards, any edits to the OP by OR shall be paid for not in Doubloons, but in fun. Specifically, OR must upon each edit pay 5 Fun Points to a person, for a contrived or otherwise reason. When he loses all Fun Points, in this manner or otherwise, the title of Chief of Fun Police passes to the person with the most Fun Points at that time. From then on, all edits to the OP are exempt from normal editing rules and may be performed freely.

One-time rules

16. Dan's Forum Doubloon's total becomes the negative of its present value when this rule is passed. At the same time, everyone who is not Dan gains one bonus Forum Doubloon.

26. Forum Doubloons are replaced with Forum Doubloons, with immediate effect. All references to Forum Doubloons within existing rules are amended to instead reference Forum Doubloons. The quantities referred to within said rules do not change i.e. a rule that previously awarded one Forum Doubloon if followed would now instead award one Forum Doubloon.

All existing player Forum Doubloon scores are converted to Forum Doubloons at a ratio of 1.3 Forum Doubloons to every 1 Forum Doubloon. Where a player has a current Forum Doubloon score at a value that is less than zero, their score is recalculated so that every negative Forum Doubloon is converted to 1 Euro.

Any individual player or team win conditions cannot be met if the individual or team possess any Euros, unless the UK leaves the European Union, at which point all Euros will instantly be converted into Forum Doubloons at a rate equivalent to the real-world exchange rate of GDP to Euros exactly 24 hours after the moment of the UK's departure, with Forum Doubloons taking the role of the GDP for the purposes of this transaction.

35. Now that the game has become fun, and has three working currencies, we clearly have an economy going, and within this economy there's a currency that simply doesn't fit anymore.

As such, this rule suggests that Euros are replaced with Blueberry MegaCoins, with immediate effect.

The person with the most Blueberry MegaCoins has the ability to Blueberry Float. This is fun and is basically a superpower (though it serves no in-game purpose)
The person with the fewest Blueberry MegaCoins is officially the Blueberry Fool.
In the event that either of these roles is involved in a Duel, it is officially a Blueberry Duel.
If the Blueberry Float defeats the Blueberry Fool in a Blueberry Duel, all game rules must be rewritten within 24 hours so that they rhyme. The fun police chief at the time dictates the meaning of "rhyme". Any rules that cannot be thusly rewritten are struck out.

37. All those who upvote this rule win the game and, when passed, the game ends.


Forum Doubloons wrote:1.3 - Curls
9.9 - Karl
11 - OrangeRKN
10.1 - Balladeer
1.3 - Cheeky Devlin
2 - Dan
1.9 - Jenuall
2.6 - PsychicSykes
2.6 - Hexx
1.3 - Oblomov Boblomov


Blueberry MegaCoins wrote:0 - Curls
0 - Karl
16.9 - OrangeRKN
0 - Balladeer
0 - Cheeky Devlin
15.6 - Dan
0 - Jenuall
0 - PsychicSykes
0 - Hexx
0 - Oblomov Boblomo


Bank wrote:Forum Doubloons - 0
Euros - 0


Fun Points wrote:486 - OrangeRKN
5 - Dan
2 - Karl
1 - Jenuall
2 - Balladeer


Hopefully that starts us off well enough. If there are serious problems that prevent the game from even working, you can blame me for reinventing the wheel!

Also note that this OP isn't guaranteed to be up-to-date. We'll see how well we can keep track of rule changes I guess!

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by Jenuall » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:09 pm

Intriguing!

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by OrangeRKN » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:10 pm

I'll kick us off by proposing a new rule:

On successful adoption of a player's proposed rule, that player will gain one point


Votes for: 1 (OrangeRKN)
Votes against: 0
Majority: +1

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by Jenuall » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:14 pm

I'll vote for that, why the hell not:

OrangeRKN wrote:I'll kick us off by proposing a new rule:

On successful adoption of a player's proposed rule, that player will gain one point


Votes for: 2 (OrangeRKN, Jenuall)
Votes against: 0
Majority: +2


And also propose my own rule:

On failing to get their rule adopted a player will be required to post in Iambic Pentameter for the remainder of the game.


Votes for: 1 (Jenuall)
Votes against: 0
Majority: +1

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by Hexx » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:18 pm

Votes for: 3 (OrangeRKN, Jenuall, Hexx)
Votes against: 0
Majority: +3

Once a player's rule has been adopted/rejected - they may not propose another rule change until at least one vote has been concluded and a new rule adopted.


Votes for: 3 (Hexx)
Votes against: 0
Majority: +1

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by OrangeRKN » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:21 pm

Hexx wrote:Votes for: 1 (OrangeRKN, Jenuall, Hexx)
Votes against: 0
Majority: +3


That's a majority! Updating the rules in the OP :toot:

Jenuall wrote:
On failing to get their rule adopted a player will be required to post in Iambic Pentameter for the remainder of the game.


Votes for: 1 (Jenuall)
Votes against: 1 (OrangeRKN)
Majority: +0


I'm voting against this on the principle that failing to get a rule adopted will probably be quite common, and people will be less inclined to keep playing if they have to do so in Iambic Pentameter from that point on :lol:

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by Hexx » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:23 pm

Jenuall wrote:
On failing to get their rule adopted a player will be required to post in Iambic Pentameter for the remainder of the game.



I'm voting against this on the principle that failing to get a rule adopted will probably be quite common, and I don't know what it means and having googled don't want to do it

Votes for: 1 (Jenuall)
Votes against: 2 (OrangeRKN, Hexx)
Majority: -1

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by OrangeRKN » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:27 pm

:lol:

Hexx wrote:
Once a player's rule has been adopted/rejected - they may not propose another rule change until at least one vote has been concluded and a new rule adopted.


Votes for: 1 (Hexx)
Votes against: 1 (OrangeRKN)
Majority: +0


I like the idea but it needs rewording. As it stands a player can't propose another rule until both another vote has concluded AND a new rule is adopted. If everyone's proposals get rejected then we'll be stuck in a situation where no one is able to propose any changes, because everyone will be waiting on a rule to be adopted where no rules can be adopted.

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by Hexx » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:30 pm

OrangeRKN wrote::lol:

Hexx wrote:
Once a player's rule has been adopted/rejected - they may not propose another rule change until at least one vote has been concluded and a new rule adopted.


Votes for: 1 (Hexx)
Votes against: 1 (OrangeRKN)
Majority: +0


I like the idea but it needs rewording. As it stands a player can't propose another rule until both another vote has concluded AND a new rule is adopted. If everyone's proposals get rejected then we'll be stuck in a situation where no one is able to propose any changes, because everyone will be waiting on a rule to be adopted where no rules can be adopted.


Well yeah. Duh. That's the point. It pushes people to want to get a new rule adopted and keeps momentum.

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by Curls » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:32 pm

Can I propose the rule.
'If a player has a proposed rule rejected. They have to apologise for wasting all of our time in a post, within 3 posts or 1 hour after the rule was rejected. Otherwise they will lose a point. "

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by Karl_ » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:35 pm

New Rule:

  • OrangeRKN must randomly assign all other players to a team, "Investigators" or "Aberrations", and in secret notify them of their team by PM, as soon as reasonably possible after their first post. (The assignment will be made by roll of a d4: 1-3 Investigators 4 Aberrations.)

For: Karl
Against:
(+1)

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by OrangeRKN » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:40 pm

Hexx wrote:Well yeah. Duh. That's the point. It pushes people to want to get a new rule adopted and keeps momentum.


Alright, but I'm still worried about the potential for a complete deadlock situation that kills the game. I'll vote for your rule but only if this one gets adopted first:

If no new proposals are made in a period of 48 hours, any rules preventing proposals being made are suspended until the next new rule is adopted. This rule shall be known as the "Hexx smells rule".


Votes for: 1 (OrangeRKN)
Votes against: 0 ()
Majority: +1

Curls wrote:
'If a player has a proposed rule rejected. They have to apologise for wasting all of our time in a post, within 3 posts or 1 hour after the rule was rejected. Otherwise they will lose a point. "


Votes for: 2 (Curls, OrangeRKN)
Votes against: 0 ()
Majority: +2


(Assuming you are voting for your own rule there)

Karl wrote:
  • OrangeRKN must randomly assign all other players to a team, "Investigators" or "Aberrations", and in secret notify them of their team by PM, as soon as reasonably possible after their first post. (The assignment will be made by roll of a d4: 1-3 Investigators 4 Aberrations.)

For: Karl, OrangeRKN
Against:
(+2)


I am all for somehow making this into a game resembling Mafia... :lol:

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by Karl_ » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:51 pm

-1 Hexx's "Lame Boring Nerd Rule", but I would vote for it if "adopted/rejected" were changed to just "rejected" -- basically I feel like popular rules shouldn't result in a timeout
+1 OrangeRKN's "Hexx Smells Rule"
+1 Curls' "Apology Rule"

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by Balladeer » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:57 pm

Voting for Karl's rule (whee, majority); for Hexx's rule (0), because people shouldn't monopolise voting; and for OR's rule I suppose (another majority). And I shall suggest a new rule:

An Aberration player may convert 2 points to place a posting restriction on another player for their next ten in-game posts. The posting restriction shall be submitted privately to OrangeRKN in a PM, who shall inform the target (and also gets to decide if the posting restriction is reasonable I guess) in a PM likewise.

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by OrangeRKN » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:19 pm

Added the three passing rules to the OP. I've also added a points section, to track player points - at least as best as I can!

I will get on PMing the existing players now :shifty:

EDIT: Done

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by Balladeer » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:55 pm

I'm leading this village everybody claim to me.

Wait, what?

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by Cheeky Devlin » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:58 pm

I propose that if you successfully propose a rule that gets adopted, you get to come up with one name change to be forced onto Dan at some point in the future.

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by OrangeRKN » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:02 pm

I'm not sure how enforceable that would be Devlin :lol:

Balladeer wrote:
An Aberration player may convert 2 points to place a posting restriction on another player for their next ten in-game posts. The posting restriction shall be submitted privately to OrangeRKN in a PM, who shall inform the target (and also gets to decide if the posting restriction is reasonable I guess) in a PM likewise.


Votes for: 1 (Balladeer)
Votes against: 1 (OrangeRKN)
Majority: +0


Stop trying to give me work to do :capnscotty:

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by Balladeer » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:08 pm

I will happily take up the mantle myself if you can’t be bothered. :P

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PostRe: Nomicade [Forum Game]
by Jenuall » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:12 pm

+1 for CD's Dan name changer rule!

This thread is going to be chaos isn't it!? :slol:

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