GRcade

Tafdolphin wrote:Then to top it off the villain of that setpiece, a colonel whose one defining feature was his massacring of Native Americans, is given a denouement which absolves him of all moral judgement and in fact paints him as something of an anti-hero.

I didnt feel like that at all, I felt like he was a cretin, you can't blame the game for leaving it open ended as we prove that we feel polar opposite about colonel slate. I think you're overly harsh on the game, I reckon had they painted slate in a more obvious "he's a bad man" then you'd be critical of it being over simplified. Take a step back a bit and try and see what the devs wanted to achieve, don't want to sound condescending but I'll take it that you presume the devs hubris' was a bit over the top but don't make that point of view cloud absolutely everything.

Slate is presented as a radical yes, but one with a twisted moral code. He'd rather his soldiers die a proper death than fight for a man who stands for nothing. This gives him a sort of moral high-ground on Comstock; a shaky one, but a highground nevertheless as he actually believes in something whereas Comstock is a pure manipulator.

I'm not saying all villains need to be one dimensional, I'm saying maybe don't make the racist genocider your villain-with-a-heart.

Tafdolphin wrote:I'm not saying all villains need to be one dimensional, I'm saying maybe don't make the racist genocider your villain-with-a-heart.

Why not?

Photek wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:I'm not saying all villains need to be one dimensional, I'm saying maybe don't make the racist genocider your villain-with-a-heart.

Why not?

BioShock 3: Hitler Did Nothing Wrong.

Tafdolphin wrote:

Photek wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:I'm not saying all villains need to be one dimensional, I'm saying maybe don't make the racist genocider your villain-with-a-heart.

Why not?

BioShock 3: Hitler Did Nothing Wrong.

No, it's just that many of Infinite's criticism's is that many of its 'choices' are ham-fisted in approach, I think they deserve credit for not just making the colonel 'Hitler'.

Yeah, I was being flippant sorry. But my issue is the character and the setting, which was what I was originally responding to. The museum level spits racist caricatures in your face, then does nothing with them. They're there as scene setting. Same with the monkey wedding where the player gets the option to begin the stoning of a mixed race couple. The game has nothing to say on racism except "it exists" and the characters who actively participate in it get away scott free.

It's a game with some extremely dubious thematics.

Tafdolphin wrote:Yeah, I was being flippant sorry. But my issue is the character and the setting, which was what I was originally responding to. The museum level spits racist caricatures in your face, then does nothing with them. They're there as scene setting. Same with the monkey wedding where the player gets the option to begin the stoning of a mixed race couple. The game has nothing to say on racism except "it exists" and the characters who actively participate in it get away scott free.

It's a game with some extremely dubious thematics.

Been a while since I've watched it but all those points are brought up in this great vid

Watched that vid today, I disagree with about half of it, some of the points made are reaching to say the least.

Photek wrote:Watched that vid today, I disagree with about half of it, some of the points made are reaching to say the least.

Nope, I think he's spot strawberry floating on with most of it. He goes on an odd rant about games journos towards the end there, but the rest of the vid is pretty much my thinking exactly. It's actually great to see someone else state the fact that infinite means, you know, infinite and that the ending makes no strawberry floating sense at all.

If they had left out the racist stuff which I agree is a topic that they should had either gone all in or not at all, would you dislike it so much? I can remember people saying things along the lines of "I shouldn't need a physics degree to understand a videogame" so it's a tough one to know how far you jump in with the science. I still think it should be applauded for trying something different to the usual revenge/stop bad person/high fantasy nonsense tropes that are the norm in videogame narrative. The gameplay is the same or at least very similar to previous Bioshock games, fair enough if you didn't like them either but it is a sequel.

I felt the urge to play through this as it was on plus a few months ago.

It holds up so well! I find it kind of crazy more games haven't done something similar to the rail system, makes the combat way more dynamic than it otherwise would be.

Elizabeth is such a good companion too. Because she actually helps you in non scripted ways you do really feel like a team.

The only gripe I really have is the handymen. Yeah I'm playing on hard but it's far too easy for them to close the distance and make your screen shake around like crazy. The Big Daddies felt far less cheap and more satisfying to fight.

I tried to play Infinite again when it came out on Plus recently, or more accurately the Burial at Sea DLC but I just couldn't get past how atrocious the performance was on the console. More judder than a night with this arsehole:

The last few pages do not make for pretty reading.

Does anyone have a clue what the makers of Bioshock are up to now?

Rapidly-Greying wrote:Does anyone have a clue what the makers of Bioshock are up to now?

Rolling out The Collection to Nintendo Switch.

Rapidly-Greying wrote:Does anyone have a clue what the makers of Bioshock are up to now?

Irrational downsized and rebranded as "Ghost Story Games" a while after completing the last Bioshock game. Other than some waffle from Ken Levine about "narrative Lego" (whatever the hell that is) I don't think anyone has heard much about what they are working on.

I think Ken should stick to story based fantastical first person adventure shooters.

Tried Bioshock Infinite the other day, maybe got about 4 hours into it.

It's a bit... meh, eh? The guns feel weak, the controls feel floaty and while the setting is lovely, constantly scavenging for items really takes me out of the experience.

I've just watched the video Maf posted above and it's sad to see they don't actually go anywhere with the nationlisim/racism stuff. Think I'll leave this one be.

Are the previous Bioshock games worth going through?

Without doubt, but I think your criticisms with Infinite will also ring true with the other 2.

aayl1 wrote:Tried Bioshock Infinite the other day, maybe got about 4 hours into it.

It's a bit... meh, eh? The guns feel weak, the controls feel floaty and while the setting is lovely, constantly scavenging for items really takes me out of the experience.

I've just watched the video Maf posted above and it's sad to see they don't actually go anywhere with the nationlisim/racism stuff. Think I'll leave this one be.

Are the previous Bioshock games worth going through?

The first is a bonafide classic.