Is it transphobic not to date someone who happens to be trans?

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Is it transphobic not to date someone just because they're trans*

Yes
1
8%
No
10
77%
Not sure
2
15%
 
Total votes: 13
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LightWanderer
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PostIs it transphobic not to date someone who happens to be trans?
by LightWanderer » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:20 pm

I see a lot of people on here defending people who are transgender. Great! It's so good to see people are moving past the arbitary conservatism of yesteryear. However a question I have for you guys (and be respectful).

How many of you would date someone who is transgender? Let's say you meet this really hot chick at the bar, hit it off and then you go back to her place and find out that she has an extra appendange. Or let's say it's your wedding day. Just as you're about to head to the chapel, the handsome guy you're going to marry comes and tells you that he was born with a female body. Would you go through with it?

What are your thoughts on someone who wouldn't go through with it? Is it transphobic or just "people like different things". Just trying to gauge the general consensus, see what way things are going.

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Moggy
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PostRe: On the topic of transwomen, is it transphobic not to date them?
by Moggy » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:22 pm

It all depends on context.

But in the whole I wouldn’t consider it transphobic.

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Skarjo
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PostRe: On the topic of transwomen, is it transphobic not to date them?
by Skarjo » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:26 pm

Moggy wrote:It all depends on context.

But in the whole I wouldn’t consider it transphobic.

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Gemini73
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PostRe: Is it transphobic not to date someone who happens to be trans?
by Gemini73 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:28 pm

I work with a few transgenders, one of whom I personally find very attractive. Would I date her if I knew that she has an extra appendage, as you put it? In all honesty probably not, but I don't consider that as me being transphobic, just personal preference. Others might see it differently, I can't say on that note.

Last edited by Gemini73 on Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Grumpy David
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PostRe: Is it transphobic not to date someone who happens to be trans?
by Grumpy David » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:32 pm

Not transphobic to not date trans people.

Likewise not homophobic to not date gay people.

Edit: typo.

Last edited by Grumpy David on Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Karl_
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PostRe: On the topic of transwomen, is it transphobic not to date them?
by Karl_ » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:37 pm

The problem with questions like this are that 1. they invite the reader to project themselves into some specific scenario and answer based on that; and 2. those scenarios usually implicitly assume some kind of misbehaviour on the part of the trans woman.

For point 1.:

For instance, you suggested, "What if you are about to have a one night stand and you discover she has a penis"? Well, it wouldn't be transphobic to refuse to go ahead that evening, because maybe you aren't attracted to penises and that's a perfectly reasonable preference. The problem isn't that she's trans (plenty of trans women don't have penises), the problem is that you find a penis to be a deal-breaking characteristic.

You then suggested "What if it's your wedding day?" For most people, sexual compatibility has already been established - no surprise penises here - but there are a two reasons this might be a deal-breaker for you. (a) Maybe you feel upset that your fiancée didn't trust you with this part of her life story, and that makes you doubt the relationship. This would be a sad story, but not transphobic. (b) Maybe you are so disgusted at transness, intrinsically, that you can't go on with the relationship. This obviously is transphobic.

So the answer boils down to "if you break up with a trans woman because you're transphobic, you're transphobic, but if it's not because you're transphobic, you aren't transphobic," which is a tautology and makes the discussion stupid and meaningless.

For point 2.:

Discussions like this tie into a stream of rhetoric which is actually dangerous and has real life consequences for trans women. It propagates the idea that you would just "find out" that you've been "trapped" into having sex under false pretences; that trans women are essentially out to rape you. In fact the opposite is true, the advice in the trans community is always to disclose as early as possible. You want transphobes to know you are trans straight away so they can just type an angry rant and block you, because if you meet up with them then tell them you might get beaten up or killed.

In extremis, the "trans panic" defence - based on the idea that trans women are trying to "trap" or "trick" men into having sex with them - has been used to literally justify the murder of trans women.

This isn't a conversation worth having, it's dumb schoolyard gooseberry fool based on regressive talking points.

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LightWanderer
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PostRe: On the topic of transwomen, is it transphobic not to date them?
by LightWanderer » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:53 pm

Karl, all really valid points, with the quick addendum that you'll find that a lot of transfolk aren't the kind to be hitting it off with random strangers in the pub anyways. When you've got dysphoria, you're not going to go out and actively look for something that will worsen this dysphoria.

I was just curious as to what y'all thoughts, as I see a lot of comments on Facebook and with my friends where transpeople are illustrated as some kind of boogeymen, as if dating someone who's trans would be the worst thing to ever happen someone. One gripe though:

Karl_ wrote:those scenarios usually implicitly assume some kind of misbehaviour on the part of the trans woman ... the advice in the trans community is always to disclose as early as possible. You want transphobes to know you are trans straight away so they can just type an angry rant and block you, because if you meet up with them then tell them you might get beaten up or killed


What about people who are too scared to disclose that they are trans? Would it really be considered misbehaviour or bad practice for them to not tell someone? The one night stand example was excessively stupid (transpeople are generally the last ones to want random hookups) but what about someone who wants an actual relationship? Do they have to tell someone straight away? And if they're post-op, do they have to tell their significant other about their past at all? Some people would want to run from the past like that, forget it existed, so it wouldn't really be misbehaviour to keep that a secret, right?

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Corazon de Leon
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PostRe: Is it transphobic not to date someone who happens to be trans?
by Corazon de Leon » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:55 pm

I can’t really disagree with anything Karl’s said there to be honest. The scenarios given are so vague as to be impossible to answer in any detail, and invite the idea of duplicity on the part of the trans person in both instances.

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PostRe: Is it transphobic not to date someone who happens to be trans?
by Karl_ » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:05 pm

@LightWanderer: Re: your followup:

I think if you're gonna bone down with someone, it's good to have some communication about potential incompatibilities beforehand. That applies to all sorts of relationships and not just if you're pre- or non-GCS trans. It doesn't have to be right away at the start when you meet someone, no, but at least in the parts of the community I keep an eye on it's accepted wisdom that it's best for trans women to rip the plaster off sooner rather than later. The more the guy likes you, the more he's told his friends about you, the more he (in some cases) feels entitled to a good time with your body, is going to mean the worse he reacts to the news if he is a transphobe. I'm talking about practicality not morality now, but delaying can put you in some real frightening situations.

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PostRe: Is it transphobic not to date someone who happens to be trans?
by Karl_ » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:06 pm

LightWanderer wrote:.


I'm not a Mod, but if you have your answer (and I think I was quite comprehensive and reasonable :) ) I would like to close this, as I think further discussion would overlap with the other trans rights thread. Is that OK with you?

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LightWanderer
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PostRe: Is it transphobic not to date someone who happens to be trans?
by LightWanderer » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:09 pm

Karl_ wrote:
LightWanderer wrote:.


I'm not a Mod, but if you have your answer (and I think I was quite comprehensive and reasonable :) ) I would like to close this, as I think further discussion would overlap with the other trans rights thread. Is that OK with you?


Sure thing chief. For the most part everyone here seems in consensus

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