Suspension of democracy ruled unlawful by Supreme Court | Parliament NOT prorogued | Election November?

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Hexx
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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by Hexx » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:40 pm

PurplePenguin wrote:
Hexx wrote:
PurplePenguin wrote:
Garth wrote:
Cuttooth wrote:What's a sensible deal in your eyes and in what ways have remainers stopped the possibility of it being agreed?

Curious about that too.


I apologize Garth I do not know all the fine details of what would be a sensible arrangement with the EU whilst not being a member. I do think we could have had the correct people in to negotiate such a thing if we didn't end up with the Maybot who didn't know what her negotiating stance should be. May was easily pushed over by both those inside her own party and the EU. I also sense her heart wasn't truly in it she did vote remain and really I am surprised the party decided she was the right person to lead the country at the time.

But you cannot for one minute look at this whole situation and think there hasn't been a core of pro-remain MP's in a number of parties that have sort to undermine the whole thing so that we remain in the EU. The EU have seized on the fact the country is not united and have just allowed leavers and remainers to butt heads and took a hard line to bolster the pro-remain movement.

Do I want no deal? absolutely not. Do I think there is a minority of racists or other types of vile human beings that voted leave? absolutely. But that is still a small minority.

By now I presume Moggy has posted about five times as the guy cannot for one moment let anything remotely leave orientated go unpunished.


The EU agreed a deal. They were 'happy' for us to leave. (As was Johnson on those terms until it became convenient for his career...)

The EU also made clear the many options that were available and it would engage in depending on the UK's red lines. They were 'happy' for us to leave on other terms

The fact that no deal could ever ever deliver the lies you believed is no one's fault but yours and the liars you continue to choose to believe for 3+ years

You're an angry insecure little man, blaming others rather than owning up to the fact your fell (and continue to) for the obvious con you did. You don't get to blame others for you being fool. Grow up.


Hexx acting the hard man online is super easy. Kids do it. I think you're the one who needs to grow up.


Calling out your obvious bullshit is super easy. It's not difficult nor requiring anything about a basic level of intelligence (we're talking able to count to 10 at most) to call out the guff you're saying

So no actually retort to basic facts then? Didn't think so. They're really not your forte. :D

Last edited by Hexx on Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by Cuttooth » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:41 pm

The Bank of England had to spend £70bn in the direct aftermath of the referendum to hold off the immediate financial panic and recession that would have ensued.

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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by Karl_ » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:41 pm

The lies of the Leave campaign were very effective. An Ipsos MORI poll in October 2018 found 42% of voters still believed the disproven "£350m a week for the NHS" advert, as opposed to 36% who thought it to be false (22% unsure).

Remain's campaign was pretty truthful by comparison, they were using figures and predictions from economists to make the point that Brexit will definitely damage our economy, leaving us with less to spend, not more.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by Hexx » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:42 pm

I think that's the thing. Leave aren't even GOOD liars. They've just got a willing audience so ready to unquestioningly lap it up

The failure of education in our society has so much to answer for :(

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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by Moggy » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:47 pm

Cuttooth wrote:The Bank of England had to spend £70bn in the direct aftermath of the referendum to hold off the immediate financial panic and recession that would have ensued.


It’s depressing just how willing people are to ignore evidence.

“Remain said a recession would happen”

“Yes but the BoE took steps to stop it”

“See, it was a Remain lie!!”

It’s like when they start talking about No Deal fears being like the millennium bug. While ignoring that the millennium bug didn’t harm us because back then we listened to strawberry floating experts.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by Hexx » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:49 pm



Johnson's (let's be honest...Cummings) Thuggery might have pushed a fair few over the edge

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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by OrangeRKN » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:49 pm

PurplePenguin wrote:There was lies on both sides.


The problem here is that you're equating the two campaigns, and making out "one was as bad as the other". It doesn't stand up to any objective scrutiny. Just because some remain campaign predictions did not come to pass, it does not put them on the same level as the lies from the leave campaign, or mean any of those lies should be dismissed.

Vote Leave were found guilty by the Electoral Commision of breaking electoral law by overspending, and the matter was referred to the police. The police have refused to investigate, citing 'political sensitivities'.

A University of Liverpool Law School Professor and expert in EU law described the Leave campaign as “one of the most dishonest campaigns this country has ever seen”, potentially resulting in “untold damage to the quality of our national democracy”. (source)

Central, highly visible claims from the Leave campaign, such as the £350 million for the NHS, were almost immediately admitted to be lies once the referendum result was announced.

All of that is on a whole different level to the remain campaign.

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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by TV Dinner » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:50 pm

A recession is dead-on for next year at the latest.

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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by Tomous » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:55 pm

PurplePenguin wrote:
Tomous wrote:
Moggy wrote:The only way this could have gone differently is if the Leave campaigns had actually agreed on what Brexit was in the first place and had honestly told the public what Brexit would mean. But they didn’t, they were content to mislead and outright lie to the public as to what Brexit meant. And so we ended up here.


Remain would have won comfortably if Leave had to campaign without lying.


There was lies on both sides. Claims even voting to leave would put us into instant recession, Cameron actually got Obama to say the UK would go at the back of the queue when it comes to a trade deal with the US if we left the EU.

I think most people can see through the lies.



The lies on the leave side were far, far bigger and more dangerous. Your example isn't even a lie, it's a prediction. The Leave campaign should have been held to a greater accountability for their actions but basically got a free pass unfortunately.

And enough people most definitely don't see through the lies, that's the whole reason we're in this mess.

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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by PurplePenguin » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:55 pm

Hexx wrote:
PurplePenguin wrote:
Hexx wrote:
PurplePenguin wrote:
Garth wrote:
Cuttooth wrote:What's a sensible deal in your eyes and in what ways have remainers stopped the possibility of it being agreed?

Curious about that too.


I apologize Garth I do not know all the fine details of what would be a sensible arrangement with the EU whilst not being a member. I do think we could have had the correct people in to negotiate such a thing if we didn't end up with the Maybot who didn't know what her negotiating stance should be. May was easily pushed over by both those inside her own party and the EU. I also sense her heart wasn't truly in it she did vote remain and really I am surprised the party decided she was the right person to lead the country at the time.

But you cannot for one minute look at this whole situation and think there hasn't been a core of pro-remain MP's in a number of parties that have sort to undermine the whole thing so that we remain in the EU. The EU have seized on the fact the country is not united and have just allowed leavers and remainers to butt heads and took a hard line to bolster the pro-remain movement.

Do I want no deal? absolutely not. Do I think there is a minority of racists or other types of vile human beings that voted leave? absolutely. But that is still a small minority.

By now I presume Moggy has posted about five times as the guy cannot for one moment let anything remotely leave orientated go unpunished.


The EU agreed a deal. They were 'happy' for us to leave. (As was Johnson on those terms until it became convenient for his career...)

The EU also made clear the many options that were available and it would engage in depending on the UK's red lines. They were 'happy' for us to leave on other terms

The fact that no deal could ever ever deliver the lies you believed is no one's fault but yours and the liars you continue to choose to believe for 3+ years

You're an angry insecure little man, blaming others rather than owning up to the fact your fell (and continue to) for the obvious con you did. You don't get to blame others for you being fool. Grow up.


Hexx acting the hard man online is super easy. Kids do it. I think you're the one who needs to grow up.


Calling out your obvious bullshit is super easy. It's not difficult nor requiring anything about a basic level of intelligence (we're talking able to count to 10 at most) to call out the guff you're saying

So no actually retort to basic facts then? Didn't think so. They're really not your forte. :D


I can see your forte is acting like you're ten men online to make up for some serious short comings in your real life. Such a sad bastard.

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Tomous
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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by Tomous » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:57 pm

OrangeRKN wrote:
PurplePenguin wrote:There was lies on both sides.


The problem here is that you're equating the two campaigns, and making out "one was as bad as the other". It doesn't stand up to any objective scrutiny. Just because some remain campaign predictions did not come to pass, it does not put them on the same level as the lies from the leave campaign, or mean any of those lies should be dismissed.

Vote Leave were found guilty by the Electoral Commision of breaking electoral law by overspending, and the matter was referred to the police. The police have refused to investigate, citing 'political sensitivities'.

A University of Liverpool Law School Professor and expert in EU law described the Leave campaign as “one of the most dishonest campaigns this country has ever seen”, potentially resulting in “untold damage to the quality of our national democracy”. (source)

Central, highly visible claims from the Leave campaign, such as the £350 million for the NHS, were almost immediately admitted to be lies once the referendum result was announced.

All of that is on a whole different level to the remain campaign.



I think Farage backtracked on this as soon as the day after the vote I think. Utterly disgraceful they've got away with such a clear cut lie, which I imagine did win a lot of votes on its' own.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by Hexx » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:58 pm

PurplePenguin wrote:
Hexx wrote:
PurplePenguin wrote:
Hexx wrote:
PurplePenguin wrote:
Garth wrote:
Cuttooth wrote:What's a sensible deal in your eyes and in what ways have remainers stopped the possibility of it being agreed?

Curious about that too.


I apologize Garth I do not know all the fine details of what would be a sensible arrangement with the EU whilst not being a member. I do think we could have had the correct people in to negotiate such a thing if we didn't end up with the Maybot who didn't know what her negotiating stance should be. May was easily pushed over by both those inside her own party and the EU. I also sense her heart wasn't truly in it she did vote remain and really I am surprised the party decided she was the right person to lead the country at the time.

But you cannot for one minute look at this whole situation and think there hasn't been a core of pro-remain MP's in a number of parties that have sort to undermine the whole thing so that we remain in the EU. The EU have seized on the fact the country is not united and have just allowed leavers and remainers to butt heads and took a hard line to bolster the pro-remain movement.

Do I want no deal? absolutely not. Do I think there is a minority of racists or other types of vile human beings that voted leave? absolutely. But that is still a small minority.

By now I presume Moggy has posted about five times as the guy cannot for one moment let anything remotely leave orientated go unpunished.


The EU agreed a deal. They were 'happy' for us to leave. (As was Johnson on those terms until it became convenient for his career...)

The EU also made clear the many options that were available and it would engage in depending on the UK's red lines. They were 'happy' for us to leave on other terms

The fact that no deal could ever ever deliver the lies you believed is no one's fault but yours and the liars you continue to choose to believe for 3+ years

You're an angry insecure little man, blaming others rather than owning up to the fact your fell (and continue to) for the obvious con you did. You don't get to blame others for you being fool. Grow up.


Hexx acting the hard man online is super easy. Kids do it. I think you're the one who needs to grow up.


Calling out your obvious bullshit is super easy. It's not difficult nor requiring anything about a basic level of intelligence (we're talking able to count to 10 at most) to call out the guff you're saying

So no actually retort to basic facts then? Didn't think so. They're really not your forte. :D


I can see your forte is acting like you're ten men online to make up for some serious short comings in your real life. Such a sad bastard.


Sure sure. Still don't have any actually responses to anything then?

I mean I liked bad jokes, but even I think you've outstayed your welcome. When you going to flounce off in a huff never to return...for the...what 6th time?

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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by Cuttooth » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:59 pm

Tomous wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:
PurplePenguin wrote:There was lies on both sides.


The problem here is that you're equating the two campaigns, and making out "one was as bad as the other". It doesn't stand up to any objective scrutiny. Just because some remain campaign predictions did not come to pass, it does not put them on the same level as the lies from the leave campaign, or mean any of those lies should be dismissed.

Vote Leave were found guilty by the Electoral Commision of breaking electoral law by overspending, and the matter was referred to the police. The police have refused to investigate, citing 'political sensitivities'.

A University of Liverpool Law School Professor and expert in EU law described the Leave campaign as “one of the most dishonest campaigns this country has ever seen”, potentially resulting in “untold damage to the quality of our national democracy”. (source)

Central, highly visible claims from the Leave campaign, such as the £350 million for the NHS, were almost immediately admitted to be lies once the referendum result was announced.

All of that is on a whole different level to the remain campaign.



I think Farage backtracked on this as soon as the day after the vote I think. Utterly disgraceful they've got away with such a clear cut lie, which I imagine did win a lot of votes on its' own.


In Farage's defence ( :dread: ) this was a Vote Leave claim, he was part of Leave.EU who supposedly didn't support the £350m claim.

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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by OrangeRKN » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:01 pm

Tomous wrote:I think Farage backtracked on [350 million] as soon as the day after the vote I think. Utterly disgraceful they've got away with such a clear cut lie, which I imagine did win a lot of votes on its' own.


Yes, it was literally the morning of the result. I was staying with my girlfriend that week and her parents were leave voters. I clearly remember them reacting with "oh but there were lies on both sides" - despite more money for the NHS being one of the central reasons for them voting as they did, one of them being an ex-nurse.

The lie about money for the NHS swung votes, and many of those caught out by it react typically by trying to justify their vote anyway rather than accept they were duped.

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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by PurplePenguin » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:01 pm

Hexx if I didn't come on here you wouldn't get to do your fake hard man act.

Its funny. You're amazingly easy to trigger.

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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by Moggy » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:04 pm

Cuttooth wrote:
Tomous wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:
PurplePenguin wrote:There was lies on both sides.


The problem here is that you're equating the two campaigns, and making out "one was as bad as the other". It doesn't stand up to any objective scrutiny. Just because some remain campaign predictions did not come to pass, it does not put them on the same level as the lies from the leave campaign, or mean any of those lies should be dismissed.

Vote Leave were found guilty by the Electoral Commision of breaking electoral law by overspending, and the matter was referred to the police. The police have refused to investigate, citing 'political sensitivities'.

A University of Liverpool Law School Professor and expert in EU law described the Leave campaign as “one of the most dishonest campaigns this country has ever seen”, potentially resulting in “untold damage to the quality of our national democracy”. (source)

Central, highly visible claims from the Leave campaign, such as the £350 million for the NHS, were almost immediately admitted to be lies once the referendum result was announced.

All of that is on a whole different level to the remain campaign.



I think Farage backtracked on this as soon as the day after the vote I think. Utterly disgraceful they've got away with such a clear cut lie, which I imagine did win a lot of votes on its' own.


In Farage's defence ( :dread: ) this was a Vote Leave claim, he was part of Leave.EU who supposedly didn't support the £350m claim.


They might not have supported it, but they certainly didn't do anything to inform people that it was bollocks until after the vote.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by Hexx » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:07 pm

OrangeRKN wrote:rather than accept they were duped.


And that's why we're never going to bring the country together.

There's just too much of the country that can not get to this point. They just get more obstinate and belligerent - even as it gets more and more ludicrous.

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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by Green Gecko » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:06 pm

There's this idea that Brexit will cause a recession? Well it depends on what market you're talking about. There already is a recession within businesses that import on the dollar or buy from American companies. I have lost several hundred pounds without doing anything. As a businessperson, I don't like that. Obviously.

I also import some European materials. I've seen some artists discussing just that. Small businesses and sole traders don't have the resources to stock pile, so they definitely get hit by that. They have one choice really - increase prices. That reduces customer interest which stifles the economy and it all goes round in circles. I don't think many people understand just how this hits not only big names like car manufacturers and stuff like that but that big undercurrent of the vast majority of businesses made up by less than 5-10 employees. Those are normal people like you and me and not CEOs.

It affects farmers as well who import seeds. And no you can't source everything domestically, it's not the strawberry floating garden of paradise. The circular economy just doesn't exist yet.

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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by Hexx » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:07 pm

Green Gecko wrote:I have lost several hundred pounds without doing anything.


The people of Britain thank you for your sacrifice in helping to deliver THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE against the bullying EU

:wub:

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PostRe: Democracy in UK suspended by unelected far-right Prime Minister | General election seems imminent
by Green Gecko » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Minor case in point - it will cost almost twice what it would have done a few years ago to get one of my machines up to spec, which is manufactured by a small company in the USA. I want to support other small businesses and manufacturers, and there is no comparable UK option. Brexit - and literally just Brexit - has caused that. This reduces my productivity. It increases anxiety because today I read about the £ dipping AGAIN and so the invoice that is literally sitting in my inbox for the next 20 days (with a time clock on it), I am more and more unsure about paying because it goes up EVERY DAY. That might sound illogical because I should pay it as soon as possible, but why would I want to pay for something that I know was worth less at some point in the past? Perhaps I should sell the machine instead and cut my losses. And then you start looking towards the future with this uncertainty and it makes the option more real, perhaps I would be better off selling out and getting a "normal job"? And then you have less options for customers and less potential employers.

But nah all that stuff about businesses being impacted by bad exchange rates and uncertainty is guff normal people don't have to worry about provided they can afford certain fruit.

This isn't a very concrete post but, my point is, there's a human and £ cost to these kinds of situations. I normally wouldn't care because gooseberry fool happens but I'm not convinced from what I've seen that this situation is going to improve any time soon. I was lucky enough to buy some assets when the £ was stronger and there was more lending because we were (finally) recovering from the '08 recession so I did that all on credit. That machine now costs about 30% more than it did... which means I can't upgrade it to get bigger jobs as it's too expensive and redundant to do so.

Ah strawberry float it, I'll get on with using my American garments, Japanese machinery and European materials to deliver a product to my customer 15 miles away (on foot).

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