Star Trek: Picard. Paramount+ and Prime Video. Series Finale out now.

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:

Lagamorph wrote:

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:

Lagamorph wrote:I'm also kind of confused by

The attack on Mars by a bunch of Androids/"Synthetics", like that just seems to have come out of nowhere? I assume there's a little bit more info in the Short Trek (that nowhere but the US has gotten because reasons) but it seems like there's a lot more backstory needed there than what you can fit into a short Trek timeslot.
All we got was "Oh yeah they were built by the Daystrom Institute on Earth", then nothing on why they suddenly decided to go rogue, how they were able to take down the entire Mars defence grid with nobody knowing or where they got the ships capable of not only destroying the Utopia Planitia Shipyards but basically rendering the entirety of Mars uninhabitable and basically setting the entire planet on fire.

I'm gonna go ahead and blame Lore.

I could easily see Maddox getting hold of Lore and re-.assembling him after Data was killed

Or simply making a similar mistake to the one Noonien Soong made when creating Lore, only with the resources to make that mistake hundreds of times

My initial thought had been that it may have been Holograms. We already saw some groundwork for Holograms starting to push for rights and independence in Voyager and I could easily see that being something that started to gain traction as Holograms became more and more advanced (There was even a Voyager novel set after their return to Earth where Holographic rights was one of the sub-plots). But then we saw a Hologram, seemingly as alert and aware as an EMH, in the Starfleet Archives so it seems the ban on Synthetic Life Forms only extended to those with a permanent physical body such as Androids and not Holographic life forms?

Lagamorph wrote:

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:

Lagamorph wrote:

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:

Lagamorph wrote:I'm also kind of confused by

The attack on Mars by a bunch of Androids/"Synthetics", like that just seems to have come out of nowhere? I assume there's a little bit more info in the Short Trek (that nowhere but the US has gotten because reasons) but it seems like there's a lot more backstory needed there than what you can fit into a short Trek timeslot.
All we got was "Oh yeah they were built by the Daystrom Institute on Earth", then nothing on why they suddenly decided to go rogue, how they were able to take down the entire Mars defence grid with nobody knowing or where they got the ships capable of not only destroying the Utopia Planitia Shipyards but basically rendering the entirety of Mars uninhabitable and basically setting the entire planet on fire.

I'm gonna go ahead and blame Lore.

I could easily see Maddox getting hold of Lore and re-.assembling him after Data was killed

Or simply making a similar mistake to the one Noonien Soong made when creating Lore, only with the resources to make that mistake hundreds of times

My initial thought had been that it may have been Holograms. We already saw some groundwork for Holograms starting to push for rights and independence in Voyager and I could easily see that being something that started to gain traction as Holograms became more and more advanced (There was even a Voyager novel set after their return to Earth where Holographic rights was one of the sub-plots). But then we saw a Hologram, seemingly as alert and aware as an EMH, in the Starfleet Archives so it seems the ban on Synthetic Life Forms only extended to those with a permanent physical body such as Androids and not Holographic life forms?

If they banned holograms, I'm pretty certain that Barclay would go mad and hold Admiral Paris hostage with a modified tricorder.

Can we have a spoiler thread please, with these posts split off? Having to spoiler everything is somewhat tedious.

Hexx wrote:Well I thought that was good - especially given some of the late info coming out.

It's not "slow" as some of the reviews have said, scenes breath and people talk normally. It's people having conversations (with the camera staying still)

They could still muck it up, and I don't like the isolationish federation teased - but it's showing good potential with something to say

Loved Picard being an old man. They're not trying to unbelievably making him an action hero. He's winded by a flight of stairs and nearly out of commission after 2. But not as a "joke" just realistically

I really like the isolationist story drawing a parallel to modern times. It fits in perfectly with Picard's character, and it makes perfect sense that he is where is at the start of this episode.

It seems to have drawn a lot of ire from some people, but I don't get it as TNG always tackled this sort of stuff.

Also, just incase anyone still dabbles in Star Trek Online, they're currently giving away the Picard Starfleet Uniform for free for Federation characters.

I've just realised that the rogue synths were from the Daystrom institute. In TOS, Dr Daystrom created an AI that went rogue.

Really enjoyed that, think they did a great job for a first episode and have set things up nicely.

I was a bit sceptical at first but quite quickly it won me over.

Loved it.

Just watched it and I thought it was great.
Anyone who gets angry about that being overly political must be constantly angry at anything that even mildly mentions politics that doesn't match their view exactly. The plot of a people being strawberry floated over by a natural disaster or war and us turning our back on them is hardly new or controversial and anyone who thinks it's some cutting remark on Trump or Brexit obviously has no idea how long it takes for a story like this show to go from initial concept to finally being on screen. It wouldn't surprise me if the script was initially written 4 or 5 years ago, well before Trump or Brexit even were things.

The start of the series was really solid and gave a good indication that it won't be all action or explosions and be more centred on actual story telling which is great to see.

Peter Crisp wrote:Just watched it and I thought it was great.
Anyone who gets angry about that being overly political must be constantly angry at anything that even mildly mentions politics that doesn't match their view exactly. The plot of a people being strawberry floated over by a natural disaster or war and us turning our back on them is hardly new or controversial and anyone who thinks it's some cutting remark on Trump or Brexit obviously has no idea how long it takes for a story like this show to go from initial concept to finally being on screen. It wouldn't surprise me if the script was initially written 4 or 5 years ago, well before Trump or Brexit even were things.

The start of the series was really solid and gave a good indication that it won't be all action or explosions and be more centred on actual story telling which is great to see.

I think the use of the Borg ship makes a lot of sense as the ships are massive with plenty of space to refit it into a liveable area with ease and plenty of access. It would require a fraction of the resources to do that than create new ships and it seems like an eminently sensible option as long as you make sure all the Borg are gone and they can't just decide to assimilate everyone one day just for a laugh.

I don't think the Romulans are refitting the Borg ship but actually stripping it down to obtain technology and resources, given that it was described as a "reclamation site". We also know from the Narada that the Romulans already had initiatives to harvest and repurpose Borg technology so this would probably be a continuation of that.
After what Voyager did to the Borg that cube most likely just completely shut down, along with probably most Borg ships outside the Delta Quadrant, and was adrift until found by the Romulans, who are now trying to use it to regain some kind of advantage over the Federation.

I'm going to be interested to find out about the current state of relations between the Federation and Klingons, and if there's any kind of ongoing contact with the Dominion/Gamma Quadrant or if the Wormhole is basically closed to traffic for the time being.

I thought it was okay but really want to see where they go before making a final judgement. I'm not sure that I like the isolationist federation as they're it's meant to be utopia. I would like to see it as an example of what we can be not our worst aspects. Also an isolationist federation seems a bit weird to me.

Lex-Man wrote:I thought it was okay but really want to see where they go before making a final judgement. I'm not sure that I like the isolationist federation as they're it's meant to be utopia. I would like to see it as an example of what we can be not our worst aspects. Also an isolationist federation seems a bit weird to me.

I do think it's odd that a society that's pretty much post scarcity has decided to become isolationist but it's not beyond the realms of believability. The federation worlds population could simply have felt overwhelmed by the sheer scope of the disaster as the entire Romulan system was in need of help which would have been a huge job. The fact that the people in need have been enemies for so long may indeed have caused widespread apathy which also could have meant isolationism was seen as a good move.

Lex-Man wrote:I thought it was okay but really want to see where they go before making a final judgement. I'm not sure that I like the isolationist federation as they're it's meant to be utopia. I would like to see it as an example of what we can be not our worst aspects. Also an isolationist federation seems a bit weird to me.

This is a Federation that has in the previous 30 or so years endured the Borg and the Dominion, and also has seen that it cannot always trust the Klingons (Duras etc), and can rarely trust the Romulans. The Dominion war especially brought out a more jaded and cynical side of the Federation. They were well on the path to isolationism.

I'm not saying it's not believable, I just think that Star Trek was started as a optimistic look at the future and it's moving away from that. Personally in this day and age I would like to see something optimistic.

Thing is despite all that, how does something like the Federation become isolationist? It is by it's very nature the exact opposite of isolationist, as it is made up of over 150 separate alien races and cultures, all of them different, sometimes radically so, yet working together. How does something like that even become isolationist?

Lagamorph wrote:Thing is despite all that, how does something like the Federation become isolationist? It is by it's very nature the exact opposite of isolationist, as it is made up of over 150 separate alien races and cultures, all of them different, sometimes radically so, yet working together. How does something like that even become isolationist?

The same way the United States of America, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland have become isolationist.

Great start, really enjoyed that a lot. Picard

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:

Lagamorph wrote:Thing is despite all that, how does something like the Federation become isolationist? It is by it's very nature the exact opposite of isolationist, as it is made up of over 150 separate alien races and cultures, all of them different, sometimes radically so, yet working together. How does something like that even become isolationist?

The same way the United States of America, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland have become isolationist.

Not quite the same in terms of just how diverse those were in both their formation and ongoing expansion

k"

Lagamorph wrote:Thing is despite all that, how does something like the Federation become isolationist? It is by it's very nature the exact opposite of isolationist, as it is made up of over 150 separate alien races and cultures, all of them different, sometimes radically so, yet working together. How does something like that even become isolationist?

Nah it doesn't really work.

Neither does "Oh we lost a planet" and "Oh 90k people died" as reasons on the back of the Dominion War. More people died in single battles of that.

Hexx wrote:k"

Lagamorph wrote:Thing is despite all that, how does something like the Federation become isolationist? It is by it's very nature the exact opposite of isolationist, as it is made up of over 150 separate alien races and cultures, all of them different, sometimes radically so, yet working together. How does something like that even become isolationist?

Nah it doesn't really work.

Neither does "Oh we lost a planet" and "Oh 90k people died" as reasons on the back of the Dominion War. More people died in single battles of that.

11,000 people died in the Battle of Wolf 359 in all of a few minutes and they recovered from that within a single year.

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:

Lex-Man wrote:I thought it was okay but really want to see where they go before making a final judgement. I'm not sure that I like the isolationist federation as they're it's meant to be utopia. I would like to see it as an example of what we can be not our worst aspects. Also an isolationist federation seems a bit weird to me.

This is a Federation that has in the previous 30 or so years endured the Borg and the Dominion, and also has seen that it cannot always trust the Klingons (Duras etc), and can rarely trust the Romulans. The Dominion war especially brought out a more jaded and cynical side of the Federation. They were well on the path to isolationism.

Yeah, I don't think it's such a stretch to see them react this way.