The Poker Thread

I got into a bad situation last night - but what happened afterwards was uncalled for.

I raised with K-7o from the cut-off (this was the big mistake right here), and my mate shoved a short stack in from the dealer button. Everyone folded and the above situation was created. I had a real crappy hand, and it was deep into the game. I could call, knowing I probably had the odds roughly, or fold and wait for a better spot. I looked qround at the five players left, and I would still be fourth even if I lost. I also didn't see many Kings in my mates range, A-K and maybe K-Q. I called and he showed K-Q. I lost the hand, and then got a huge lecture from the table captain who has been giving me stick for weeks on and off the table that I was 'so far away from having the odds it was unreal' and 'that I needed to go back and read the books again because I haven't got a clue'. Even with this bad call being dominated, I am 24/25% so even in this pretty bad scenario I am not awfully off. What irked me was being told I didn't have a clue, and that everyone on the table agreed with him blindly bar one. I just quietly grinded my way to third before shoving A-7 into A-Q. But every single hand it was like 'Huh - hes got K-7 huh huh....' - absolutely pathetic.

This same guy has been criticising me both as a player AND as a person in the last five or six games I have played. I don't know whats caused it or how to react now - its just so wierd.

Its not the worst move but if you put any K or A in his range your either drawing dead to the kicker or the K only effectivly giving you 3 or 6 outs if the K is live.

I personally would of laid it down and looked for a better spot.

At least you have seen your mistake in the raise as that for me is a Shove or fold if your first to act with only 3 players behind one been short stacked.

Still waiting for my partner to get the internet sorted I might try play tonight in a small game on the Dongle we use and see how the connection holds up.

The thing with holdem is that you are very rarely going to be in terrible shape pre-flop. The worst he could have is KK and that would be terrible as you'd only win 6.7% of the time, but if he has AK you still win 25% of the time, and if it is AQ or AJ your K7 wins more than 1/3rd of the time.

If you give him a range of 14% (77+,ATo+,A8s+,QTs,JTs+,KJo+) then K7o wins 32.8% of the time so it's a good call. If he is much tighter than that and has a range of 6.5% (88+,ATs+,KQs,AQo+) then K7o win 27.3% and so it's still not that bad a call.

Yeah, I was going to say that you should download PokerStove and pump the hand ranges in.

I don't think raising K7o from the cutoff is bad but it depends on the situation. If the blinds are and button are tight/fold to raises alot i.e the button might open 60% of his range but only call raises with like 10% then it's fine because you've got a blocker to people's possibly calling/3 betting hands. But if there's reshove stacks to the left of you then it becomes more problematic if they're active reshovers.

Ecno wrote:I don't think raising K7o from the cutoff is bad but it depends on the situation. If the blinds are and button are tight/fold to raises alot i.e the button might open 60% of his range but only call raises with like 10% then it's fine because you've got a blocker to people's possibly calling/3 betting hands. But if there's reshove stacks to the left of you then it becomes more problematic if they're active reshovers.

Well they weren't active reshovers - to be honest I didn't realise my mate was as short as he was - but I know hes not going to shove just anything there, although K-Q was a bit suprising - seems the table talk had seeped into him too. My point being here that although the move should certainly be debated, I don't think I should be being abused over it by wankers?

The same guy has spread gooseberry fool about my play, said I had a fundemental flaw in my game when I 'don't believe someone' (I saw a hand with Ace high), spread gooseberry fool when I didn't tip a dealer, spread gooseberry fool when I didn't tip a dealer ENOUGH (ten percent MY ARSE), told me he hopes karma will come and bite me in the arse - I don't know what I have done to this guy for him to try and get so under my skin but its really ruining my enjoyment of my local games because I can't work it out.

DML wrote:Well they weren't active reshovers - to be honest I didn't realise my mate was as short as he was - but I know hes not going to shove just anything there, although K-Q was a bit suprising - seems the table talk had seeped into him too.

FWIW there's nothing wrong with re-shoving KQ if he's < 15 BBs.

DML wrote:The same guy has spread gooseberry fool about my play, said I had a fundemental flaw in my game when I 'don't believe someone' (I saw a hand with Ace high), spread gooseberry fool when I didn't tip a dealer, spread gooseberry fool when I didn't tip a dealer ENOUGH (ten percent MY ARSE), told me he hopes karma will come and bite me in the arse - I don't know what I have done to this guy for him to try and get so under my skin but its really ruining my enjoyment of my local games because I can't work it out.

If it's really bothering you then the next time he starts, politely ask him to pipe down, and if he doesn't relent then call over the tournament director or whoever is supposed to be in charge. I've only had someone get a bit shirty with me once when I took most of his chips (after re-shoving with AK, incidentally). He called with 44 and the board counterfeited him.

"Terrible play" etc.

Any up for some Home Game tonight around 9pm?

Drumstick wrote:

DML wrote:Well they weren't active reshovers - to be honest I didn't realise my mate was as short as he was - but I know hes not going to shove just anything there, although K-Q was a bit suprising - seems the table talk had seeped into him too.

FWIW there's nothing wrong with re-shoving KQ if he's < 15 BBs.

DML wrote:The same guy has spread gooseberry fool about my play, said I had a fundemental flaw in my game when I 'don't believe someone' (I saw a hand with Ace high), spread gooseberry fool when I didn't tip a dealer, spread gooseberry fool when I didn't tip a dealer ENOUGH (ten percent MY ARSE), told me he hopes karma will come and bite me in the arse - I don't know what I have done to this guy for him to try and get so under my skin but its really ruining my enjoyment of my local games because I can't work it out.

If it's really bothering you then the next time he starts, politely ask him to pipe down, and if he doesn't relent then call over the tournament director or whoever is supposed to be in charge. I've only had someone get a bit shirty with me once when I took most of his chips (after re-shoving with AK, incidentally). He called with 44 and the board counterfeited him.

"Terrible play" etc.

Any up for some Home Game tonight around 9pm?

Oh theres absolutely nothing wrong with the K-Q shove, but hes one of my best mates and I have played him a LOT - so I wouldn't have put K-Q in his re-shoving range. It was a very clever shove (he won the game in the end).

Remember the Southern Cup I won two years ago? Well its up for grabs again this week, and if our team wins, I'd be thge only individual member of a team to win it twice. That would be a nice way to shut him up.

The issue? Hes on my team! And also the guy who was right in my face a few weeks ago saying 'thats how you play pokahhhh' - yeah...him as well. At least I don't have to play the bastards - so no tilt issues, but if I have one more side-note about my poker or me as a person, I'll be doing a lot more then just calling the TD over!

Tell him to put his money where his mouth is and play in the GR series of poker ME.

I've finally made a slight profit for the month at the cash tables. It's only $35 but considering I was down $300 at the start I'm happy with that, plus I've made $235 from bonuses and tomorrow I will reach Goldstar so should get the equivalent of 25% rakeback next month.

Meet your 2011 November Nine:

Just played a pretty epic session of Omaha to try and grind out my PS bonus, and went 6 BIs up. Then the hand of variance intervened, and I played a few poor hands, and ended up breakeven (although $10 up through the bonus )

So fun, but so many variables. Will definitely do some reading on it soon.

Was just three tabling the PLO $0.05/$0.10 6-max myself. Like 2nd hand I stacked a guy and he berates me about it. Then < 5 hands later I stacked a shorty and he starts again. Except this time it doesn't end. Like ever. He spent an hour heckling me. I sat there silently, waiting for my spot. Eventually it came.


Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 5 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: $9.56
BB: $5.00
UTG: $4.03
Hero (CO): $19.53
BTN: $6.97

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with T T Q Q
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN raises to $1.05, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.25) J 9 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.14, Hero raises to $8.56, BTN calls $3.78 all in

Turn: ($14.09) J (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($14.09) T (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $14.09
Hero shows T T Q Q (a full house, Tens full of Jacks)
BTN shows 4 K 5 K (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
Hero wins $13.40
(Rake: $0.69)

I was 9-tabling 25NL 6-max for a few hours earlier and got 4000 hands in. I started off great and had $120 profit at one point, then got some really disgusting hands and went down to -$80, then slowly built it back up to +$30.

I feel like I play much better when I have nine tables up as I'm folding a lot more and largely just sticking to premium hands. The 65 billion hand promotion also means there are currently loads more fish at the tables.

Edit: I also cleared the last of my $100 bonus and reached Goldstar 11 days earlier than expected. I think I might be able to make Platinumstar next month.

Oh yeah I also won my biggest pot yet at 25NL:

I was 70% favourite when the money went in a 4-way pot.

Nice

OK, here's an Omaha situation that I was unsure about. It's 10PL Omaha, and I forgot to grab the HH.

I have AsAc3s8c, and there is one limp before me in the SB.I have no specific reads.I raise POT, and there is a call from the BB and a call from the limper.

Flop is 98ss6h.

I bet near enough pot again, the BB calls and then the limper raises. Now, at this point, I felt strongly enough that he will always have at least a set here, maybe a straight (is that reasonable? I hardly see any raises in Omaha - at 10PL anyway - unless it's strong holdings), so what should I do? Shove, fold, or call? I'm assuming he will probably pot the turn, which will be $7 if I call the flop.

Nova wrote:Nice

OK, here's an Omaha situation that I was unsure about. It's 10PL Omaha, and I forgot to grab the HH.

I have AsAc3s8c, and there is one limp before me in the SB.I have no specific reads.I raise POT, and there is a call from the BB and a call from the limper.

Flop is 98ss6h.

I bet near enough pot again, the BB calls and then the limper raises. Now, at this point, I felt strongly enough that he will always have at least a set here, maybe a straight (is that reasonable? I hardly see any raises in Omaha - at 10PL anyway - unless it's strong holdings), so what should I do? Shove, fold, or call? I'm assuming he will probably pot the turn, which will be $7 if I call the flop.

I think based on the play the limper probably has a hand like 789T or 899T, basically three or four connected cards around this region, sometimes with a pair. I see these kind of hands limp-called a lot. Sadly your aces shrink massively on such a connected flop and essentially all you really have is the nut flush draw. I would definitely call the flop raise as we are drawing to the nuts, but as you said be aware he is probably going to fire the turn for a pot-sized bet too, when you are going to have to fold as you won't be getting the right odds. So really you define how the hand plays out on the flop. Either get it in as a slight dog drawing to the nuts, or try and see a relatively cheaper turn so that you can still fold if you don't hit.

Well, the table draw for the Cup has stuck me on the same STT table as the leagues 'undisputed number one'.

I plan to dispute this.

I second the suggestion to opt for a cheap turn. You are cancelling out the 8s as a set possibility through your own hand, so there are only two available. The straight/straight draw is more likely, and with a pair/overpair/FD, you have lots of backdoor outs. See the turn then reassess. Best case scenario is the 6s.

Yeah if he is anything like me when playing PL I like to pay one gap suited connectors in the same way limp see a flop and then put pressure on in postiton.

Well no net yet but i'm gonna try play a SNG after work tonight at low stakes if it goes well I'll try arrange a 4.40 180 man if there still popular on Stars?

Pretty sure you are getting owned there.

Do people not bother to use some sort of equity calculator themselves anymore?

His hand is pretty often made here already or huge draw. The fact you have AA is not contributing at all, you just have a flush draw.

If you chuck in the low straight say 75 and then give him two more random cards without any spades (optimistic) and not giving him 2 diamonds for a backdoor (optimistic) say 7h5dKh2h then you are only 43%.

Give them bottom set (again not blocking your flush) and two completely gooseberry fool cards e.g. 6h6ckh2h and you are 36%.

You are only 54% vs Jd9d7s4s (backdoor flush + straight draws)